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Today, nearly half of all bus journeys in England are made in London.
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Bus latest
(692 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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Whenever there's a mention of the transport hierarchy (especially in relation to floating bus stops), I always wonder about the thought process some folk have when going through it.
So you fix things for pedestrians at the top of the hierarchy by removing the floating bus stops, cycle lanes, bollards etc - tick, job done, great.
But then you move on to the next line - cyclists. They need safe, protected spaces, cycles lanes not shared with buses. So where do they go on the road? Err, too difficult to fit them in without affecting things below them in the hierarchy - let's move on...
Posted 2 years ago # -
My experience is that cyclists and pedestrians mix pretty easily. For example, I have cycled through the Meadows literally thousands of times, including years when the paths were far narrower than today. I have never seen, nor heard of, a collision between a pedestrian and cyclist. This includes during many festivals and taking account of the general oblivious/free roaming/steamboats nature of many people on foot (and a fair number of the cyclists too).
Most pedestrian and bus campaigners only have the best of intentions. However, an unscrupulous element do latch on to legitimate calls by these groups to simply push back against any cycling infrastructure development. See also - concerns about "the disabled".
Posted 2 years ago # -
Agree entirely @morningsider but you will recall hearing of my crash on slippery leaves while braking and trying to avoid a pedestrian. I guess that’s not a crash *with* a pedestrian though? If you’re being pedantic, which of course no one here ever is…
Posted 2 years ago # -
“
Three new peak hour bus lane cameras are being introduced at
Melville Drive, eastbound between Argyle Place and Hope Park Crescent
South Gyle Broadway, south eastbound between Gogarloch Road and South Gyle Wynd
“
Telford Road, westbound between Hillhouse Road and Drylaw Grove.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Could be an interesting issue for Edinburgh there.....
But seriously, with a total cost of daily bus travel for those between 25 and 60 years old in Scotland from under £2 to around £3 per day I find this debate a bit uninformed indeed for under £3/day you can buy 1 year of 2 Zones with SPT Zonecard for bus, train, subway and some ferries.
For under £5/day, the whole SPT area across the West of Scotland
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Tulyar - If you have 800-3k quid burning a hole in your pocket, sure you can ride for that cheap. A lot of folk don't have that kind of cash spare to make a single purchase, and while you can buy smaller blocks of time the discount decreases proportionally.
There's also the issue of behaviour change to consider - if you want to entice people out of their cars, you're not going to do it all at once, it has to happen journey-by-journey, they have to think "ah well, maybe this time I'll just take a bus", and high single fares discourage that.
In an ideal world public transport should be fully subsidised and free at the point of use for everyone, with routes and frequency determined by a reasonable minimum service standard depending on population. Since we don't yet live in an ideal world, the next best thing is that individual fares are cheap at all times of the day everywhere, and we don't limit access to affordable transit to people who can afford to save up for it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Yodhrin - have to admit I'm not a fan of universal fare-free public transport. It can produce some serious unintended consequences, the experience of Tallinn shows that much of the modal shift to public transport came from walking and cycling.
I think the cash used to provide fare-free travel would be better spent on subsidising new services, and improving service frequency and reliability.
I do support your idea of rolling fare-capping, so people can effectively buy weekly/monthly or even annual season tickets one fare at a time. I think Lothian now do weekly fare capping, which is a start.
Posted 2 years ago # -
“much of the modal shift to public transport came from walking and cycling“
Oh
So motorists don’t like carrots…
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well, people aged 60+ in Scotland get free bus travel. The number of Scots aged 60+ holding a concessionary fares card increased by over 460,000 (56%) between 2006 and 2020. Over the same period the annual number of concessionary bus trips fell by 18 million (12%).
Free bus travel does not seem to be a cost-effective way of getting people out of their cars. I'm not saying it has no benefits, but I reckon the money could be spent to more effect elsewhere.
All figures from Scottish Transport Statistics 2020 edition.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ah sorry, I should have been clearer - when I said "ideal world", I was referring to one in which big heavy (metaphorical...mostly)sticks were also being used to make individual car ownership as much of a nightmare as possible. Yes just making everything free on its own would be more of a hindrance than a help, it has to exist in the same context as a comprehensive mostly-segregated cycle network; road diets; cities comprised largely of LTNs, bicycle-priority streets, and substantial pedestrianised centres; traffic circulation plans, etc etc.
But yes now the technology for fare capping exists, it should be universal, fully annual(ie, once you've spent the annual amount with a specific debit/credit card using that same card from then on should result in no further charges at all for that year), and in a perfect world national and multi-modal, but for now I'd settle for Lothian Buses just making it annual rather than trying to cling on to ridacards and hoping the hassle/cost barrier for longer periods will keep people paying full-cost at the point of use.
Posted 2 years ago # -
We applied online. The process was ridiculously complicated, and a really poor user experience, with a clotted website, no clarity about the process and excessive requirements to prove ID. It would exclude anyone with limited confidence with IT, without a passport or a copy of their birth certificate (so basically the people who would really benefit from it, rather than people like me who aren't going to pass up the opportunity to get 'free' travel to school for my kids that I was previously paying for directly, and will now instead pay through my tax bill.).
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Greenroofer - agreed. What I don't understand is what fraud they might be trying to prevent with the ridiculous ID requirements. I reckon it's unlikely Scotland will be flooded with teenagers from elsewhere who fancy a free trip to Penicuk.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Same as Amazon. The data collected on your customers is worth more than the actual products you sell.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I guess they might be worried about people hanging on to their passes after they are no longer eligible.
Not exactly crime of the century, and in any case would allow for simply making public transport free on a rolling generational basis. Such a policy is I fear too radical for the SNP base though I personally would greatly enjoy watching the boomers explode with gammony rage if it were introduced
Likely it's another "set up to fail" policy like pavement parking.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I can attest that the mobile app you can use if you already have a Young Scot card is fairly onerous to use. My eldest was really put off and has yet to complete the application as prelims are more of a priority. I applied for my youngest nearly two weeks ago, still not heard anything. Luckily I already have a MyScotGov account, and had birth certificate to hand, but their passport expired last year - no real need to renew it at the moment.
I can well imagine those less familiar with government bureaucracy are really struggling with the process.
Posted 2 years ago # -
micro-Greenroofer is young enough that I had to do his application for him. By the end I was spitting feathers and my blood pressure had reached unhealthy levels, so I told mini-G (older) that she would have to do her own.
She was critical of my rages until she tried her own application. By the end of it she was spitting feathers too. The worst thing for her, above the clotted and unreliable process, was that she had to take a selfie to use as the card photo, and the constraints it placed on how she could do it produced a really unflattering picture which, for a mid-teen young woman is serious* failing.
*I mean it. Not joking.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@crowriver - I hate to say this but if the passport's expired then the application will be rejected... I'm speaking from experience!
I have no idea why the passport has to be active to prove the individual's ID - Certainly other Scottish Government services requiring the use of IDV and making use of Home Office Approved providers allow the use of expired passports.
I would echo @greenroofer's comments and it is easy to see how people who are less confident can end up in an interminable loop. We had access to mini and micro twinspark's existing Young Scot cards and despite having the 16 digit numbers under the name and above the purple date of birth section, these were rejeceted as invalid numbers.... the whole thing appears to be a mess.
I thought I was prepped with a scan of my driving license, only to discover that they also want a scan of the reverse of it - for what reason, I have no idea as the ID Details and security features are on the front. In fact it appears to be an onerous and unecessary requiremnt and goes against GDPR data minimisation principles.
I would imagine if the ICO are doing their job, given all the comments there are on social media about the application process, they will be all over Young Scot like a badly fitting suit!....
Posted 2 years ago # -
@twinspark, well I was concerned about that too, but having read all the information, it is contradictory. Some bits say birth certificate is sufficient, elsewhere it says you need photo ID.
We'll see what happens I suppose!
Posted 2 years ago # -
@crowriver - would appreciate if you could sign post me to the contradictory advice. When we applied nothing precluded expired passport usage.
Also people need to be aware that there is guidance now that an abbreviated birth record (the one you get on registering a birth free of charge) is NOT accepted. Several of our neighbours seem to have been caught out by this. Only a full birth certificate is accepted which you have to pay for so again not a very inclusive process.
What I don't get, given that the majority of young people already have a card having been set up (and IDV'd by default) at school that there isn't a straightforward update mechanism....
Posted 2 years ago #
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