I don't have measurements, but when I walked round a corner and saw one at a bus stop for the first time I could definitely tell the difference.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
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(725 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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When you get in one you'll see they are definitely bigger. The top deck just goes on and on...
I think they are rather splendid.
Posted 5 years ago # -
From a trip home on the top deck of one of the 400XLBs last week I think HankChief is right that the seat pitch is a bit less generous than on Lothian's other double-deckers (though even on those it is variable, even within a single bus). I suspect that the additional capacity comes from a combination of both the longer body and slightly less legroom. Which, for a six-footer like me, is a bit :(
According to Wiki, the Enviro400XLB is 13.4m long, versus between 10.1m and 11.4m for the dual-axle Enviro400. So that's two metres longer than the longest dual-axle body version.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Ok bus experts, help with this please -
“
The electric hybrid vehicles, which run up to every 30 minutes on service 7, offer greenhouse gas reductions by 30% and are 10-20% more fuel efficient compared to conventional diesel powered vehicles. They are significantly lighter and quieter than previous models and have an engine stop-start system which allows the engine to turn off and driven in electric mode.
“
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/east-scotland/service-7-new-hybrids
How is a diesel engine engine charging s battery more fuel efficient?
How is a bus with batteries lighter - which I don’t think was the case with LB?
Posted 5 years ago # -
All guesses on this one, but...
1) Electric motor more efficient for high torque applications, such as starting off. Once rolling, the diesel conventional drive kicks in and trickle charges the batteries.
2) Regenerative breaking actually useful on a heavy vehicle.
3) Small batteries (intended only for starting and limited low speed maneuvering) are much lighter.
So, having small batteries with limited capacity will be lighter than a plug in hybrid, but can still improve efficiency (stop-start improving efficiency similarly) compared to a pure diesel.
So it's unlikely to be a pure electric vehicle with the electricity provided by a diesel engine due to the losses of efficiency you anticipate, rather it will have both drive systems, but not plug in recharging.
Robert
Posted 5 years ago # -
Ah yes, regenerative braking should be a significant factor in energy efficiency.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Remember current diesels are lighter than previous diesels too. So to an extend the comparison is apples and pears.
Using composites for internal fittings is becoming more cost effective over time.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I wish they'd just push on with more all electric buses.
The diesel buses might make sense now, but I feel in ten years time we'll be looking back with embarrassment.
Shenzhen showing what can be done.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/12/silence-shenzhen-world-first-electric-bus-fleet
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Murun Buchstansangur: The rearmost wheels aren't quite in line with the other rear wheels - perhaps leading to an optical illusion?
I'm pretty convinced that this the answer. One of the XLBs drove by when I was on Princes Street the other day. I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention but I was suddenly aware that the rearmost axle looked as if it was raised. I looked again more closely and of course it wasn't (because they don't). I caught a glimpse of the same thing with another of them earlier today.
I think it must be something to do with the narrower track of the tag axle, when seen from with a range of viewing angles. Maybe the fact that the wheel is tucked further in to the wheel well can make look it look like it's actually tucked further up. (In fact, I reckon it looks a bit like that in the photo that you posted.) I'd suggest that we are probably more used to seeing large vehicles with one rear axle raised, and comparatively far fewer with one axle noticeably narrower than the immediately adjacent one.
Plus, perhaps, the polished wheel cover might make it look as if it's not actually rotating when the bus is moving? (Much less sure about this idea though.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
@toomanybikes: Couple of statements from LB's Bus 2020 Strategy report:
"Hybrid buses are an important and complementary technology but have premium costs due to the added battery components on board. The buses use a combination of batteries and a smaller diesel engine to power the bus, with regenerative braking and start-stop technology, the buses move from stationary under electric power then progress to hybrid operation when up to speed."
and
"With the move towards LEZ’s on Government agendas, the appeal of ultra-low emission buses increases. Over the next two years, Lothian will invest in fully electric single deck buses, though this technology is still developing and is not as yet mature. With ever changing technology, the range of a full electric bus is increasing though still does not meet what an operator needs to run full service and route diagrams. Today they have a range of around 150-180 miles when an average route covers 250 to 300 miles daily. Lothian is committed to further exploring this technology and purchasing buses which have full and complete electrification of the vehicles including heating and air conditioning requirements, unlike many products on the market which have these powered by ancillary diesel powered systems.
"Whilst there is a push towards full electric technology, with no infrastructure funding support, bus operators must bear the full burden of the costs alone. This as it stands is not a sustainable solution."
Posted 5 years ago # -
If only they had something to spend that £2.5bn transport budget on...
My solution would be something like this:
https://twitter.com/davidleenz/status/1109261591327854592?s=21
Posted 5 years ago # -
Borders Buses have bought three new double decker buses with cycle spaces - they'll be used on the X62 to Peebles https://www.alexander-dennis.com/media/news/2019/april/borders-buses-invests-in-active-travel-with-bike-friendly-enviro400/
Posted 5 years ago # -
A complete non-story.
If you ask for a semi-standard personalised plate when you buy a new vehicle it only costs about £60 - which is about 0.03% of the cost of the coach.
e.g LC19 YYY fits the standard format
Posted 5 years ago # -
Hmmm, I take your point that a semi-personalised number plate might not cost very much, but from the article it really does sound as though Lothian aren't just registering "AA 12 BUS" type numbers (which are fair enough and quite amusing) but are deliberately choosing names to point the finger (upwards, not outwards) at their rivals.
That does seem a bit juvenile and unwelcome: there is surely a niche for all of these bus companies to operate in different sectors of the coach/tour market, and it does come over as a rather unpleasant and unprofessional attitude (which genuinely seems out of place for Lothian Buses), sadly.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Annoyed by this myself, as it reduces the available direct buses to get to the Pentlands from my part of town.
"...a revised route for the service number 15 and X15, with buses to run between Penicuik and Waterloo Place and the Saturday service withdrawn."
Posted 5 years ago # -
Report on A90 Queensferry road going to TEC saying that bus lanes wouldn't be feasible because of too many cars...
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
SCOOT (Split Cycle Offset Optimisation Technique) is a traffic control systems designed to optimise traffic signals thereby improving traffic flow.
“
Never knew that’s what they were called
“
Numerous inductive SCOOT loop detectors are damaged on the A90, reducing the effectiveness of SCOOT control. Repairing the damaged SCOOT infrastructure on the A90 would result in improved traffic flow.
“
Mmm.
Mmm as in ‘why haven’t they fixed them then’.
Mmm “improved traffic flow”
Posted 5 years ago # -
I was surprised to read in that report that the A90//Queensferry Road is “effectively single-carriageway” from the city centre to Telford Road.
Posted 5 years ago # -
It's single carriageway all the way to Cramond Brig, isn't it?
A ludicrously wide single carriageway, of course.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Despite driving along it yesterday I had to double-check on streetview - its two-lanes each way for almost the entire route to Dean Bridge. At Blackhall it’s two lanes each way along with a line of parking on either side of the road. The only bit where it is one lane is between the Craigleith junction and the roundabout near Orchard Brae: at this stretch there is a large white hatched area down the middle.
It’s only “effectively single-carriageway “ because parking is prioritised.
Posted 5 years ago # -
'It’s only “effectively single-carriageway “ because parking is prioritised.'
Exactly. But hey, the great god Traffic Flow must be appeased. Bus services are a fitting sacrifice to keep the Driver Demons contented. Council roads dept officials need to look after the fate of their spirits in the afterlife you know...
Posted 5 years ago # -
"Single carriageway" means that there's no physical separation between eastbound and westbound traffic, rather than anything to do with the number of lanes.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Cllr Frank Ross seems to imply all to play for...
"Still only an officer recommendation. Elected members can overturn."
https://twitter.com/FrankRoss06/status/1140248826869141504?s=19
"Not a surprise as officers have long opposed the introduction of bus lanes along the A90. They have consistently been more concerned about cars entering the city than citizens who live here."
https://twitter.com/FrankRoss06/status/1140248209291468805?s=19
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Frenchy - ah, I did not realise that.
Posted 5 years ago # -
(I'm not really sure what the relevance of it being single/dual carriageway is.)
Posted 5 years ago #
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