CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.

POP Feeder Rides (now organising for 2017)

(173 posts)

  1. HankChief
    Member

    So this year I stepped back from Tshirt selling duties (Thank you @AIMC for picking up) and jointly ran the Corstorphine / Roseburn feeder ride.

    I did have a few concerns about running one, but ultimately it all went very smoothly and was a lot less bother than I feared.

    I'm interested to hear what other feeder riders were like (& happy to take specific feedback on ours).

    Ultimately, I think that feeder rides are a good way of making the protest 'local' as it shows the community coming together and raising the issue.

    With next year being local council elections, having a feeder ride from each Ward would be awesome, even if they did quickly amalgamate into bigger groups.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. HankChief
    Member

    In terms of promotion, we just used a Facebook event page, which was put on the Pop website but then I put it onto a local Corstorphine Facebook site (usually filled with anticycling trolls...) and then pumped out a few tweets in the run up being competitive with @GreenRoofer on who would have better flags.

    I've no idea what it was that got people to come along...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "having a feeder ride from each Ward would be awesome"

    GREAT idea!

    Now someone has to stare at a map and work out the best starting place in each ward and then work out the options for stringing these together to create routes.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    Bruntsfield, Craiglockhart and Sciennes all promoted the feeders on the school email, don't know if they went out to South Morningside and Gillespies or not.

    A feeder from South Morningside, joining Harrison Park might be an idea.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

  6. chdot
    Admin

    Quick look at map above and where the wards are, might need 5 or 6 routes which would fit with previous ride routes.

    Probably needs new rides from Balerno and Liberton.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. Stickman
    Member

    I've now been on three different feeder rides:
    - first one from 5 Ways along NEPN
    - second one, helping with Harrison Park
    - this year, helping HankChief with Roseburn/Corstorphine

    My observation is that weight of numbers and a clear plan makes things much easier. The former can't be guaranteed but the latter can be. Telling everyone at the start exactly what is going to happen ("we'll have someone at the front - don't overtake them, someone at the back watching out for traffic and people going up and down the line keeping us together/blocking junctions etc) gives everyone taking part more confidence.

    My perspective (which may have been different from HankChief's) was that having around 100 riders together actually made things easier, if maybe held drivers up a bit more. Drivers were less likely to take a chance getting past and it made it more obvious that it was a (semi-) organised event.

    The thing that made the most difference though was having the police to help us/Harrison Park out across the King's junction. In the previous rides we didn't have that and it was the most stressful part.

    Getting the police on board with helping out at some key junctions would make things so much better.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. Stickman
    Member

    Should also say that although on Saturday we only started with four "marshalls" the more confident cyclists in the group also helped out with junctions etc. We also picked up two more mature lady riders at Russell Road who couldn't have been more keen to help out at junctions! (I'm not sure if they planned to go to PoP or just came along, but they were great - saw them down at Holyrood and they'd had a fab day!)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Greenroofer
    Member

    I think the weight of numbers thing is key. It's very hard for someone to argue with 100 people on bikes, especially when there are lots of small fry amongst them. My big lesson from this year is to try to keep everyone bunched up in and claiming space, rather than let them string out.

    I would also emphasise planning. We did have a plan, and it worked, but on reflection the marshals should have spent more time together working out the detail of the plan and our contingency options.

    I had two bits of paper in my pocket the whole time. One was official permission to use Harrison Park, the other was recognition from the council that we had a TTRO. There was great comfort from knowing that they could be waved at anyone who got too uppity.

    ...and seeing the two bike cops at the King's was a HUGE relief. Would definitely arrange that again.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Claire
    Member

    I was v keen to have people bunched together and avoid stringing out. I think we did a good job of keeping people as a unit - we were a two-wheeled force to be reckoned with.

    Police escort at Kings was a major stress reliever.

    I'm happy to help out again next year if another west side feeder is proposed. I will also be much more creative with bike decoration...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Roibeard
    Member

    From the Sciennes Cycle to School rides, I think we've also learned to completely fill the lane - we found that children, when directed to cycle two abreast, would still be just in the QBiC cycle lane, but strung out for so long that drivers turning left or right through the group was a serious concern.

    So, we dispensed with the Highway Code ("no more than two abreast") and simply travel as a lane filling bunch.

    For traffic signals, we'll slow down for a late green, rather than split the group, let the stragglers join the bunch again (there are always some, no matter the front pace!) and then proceed through on the next phase. There's always a risk that no drivers will manage through on that phase, but that's not really our concern...

    This means that we don't feel compelled to push the rear of the group through a red signal, whilst attempting to hold back joining traffic with a green - the phases are generous enough that the Sciennes bunch can get through in one go, even if it is initially counter-intuitive to slow down approaching a green light!

    A roving "sweeper" to request bunching up and filling in the gaps is probably necessary - it seems many parents default to kid in the gutter and parent close beside, so being out in the middle of the lane requires encouragement.

    Finally, some "take the lane" minded back markers are required to protect the stragglers (who invariably drift into the gutter again) from overlapping drivers. Stern looks and hard stares are sometimes required, and getting in the way is always required - it's hard for one (or even two) cyclists to fill the entire north-bound carriageway at the rear.

    This was not the police advice to us, but they aren't present to deal with the risks their advice creates!

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. Firedog
    Member

    I thought the Corstorphine feeder worked really well - far more people than I thought, which did I think help make for an easier journey into town.

    As someone said to me along the way - if only it could be this pleasant every day.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. fimm
    Member

    From the Harrison Park feeder ride:
    I was at the front of the group initially, and our problem was in fact a bunch of kids who went whizzing off at a great rate of knots, resulting in the whole thing getting strung out. We were only saved when a man on a Brompton who knew them came up and gave them a telling off!

    Next time I would put 3-4 adults on the front to block the road and keep everyone else behind (not necessarily all appointed marshals, a couple could just be asked "Would you mind riding at the front with us and riding really slowly?"). I'd take Roibeard's advice about slowing for late greens to heart.

    We got through the Polwarth Gardens/Polwarth Crescent/Granville Terrace roundabout without any issues, really; but I think all the marshals stopped there - some should have gone on with the head of the ride... it was just as well there there were police at the King's junction. We were very strung out by the time we got there, and there was a van and other traffic mixed in with the cyclists. I suspect the King's junction was closed longer than really necessary (not that I should care about that!)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. fimm
    Member

    Greenroofer, was there a reason why we came out of Harrison Park via Ogilvie Terrace and Gray's Loan, rather than just blocking Harrison Road until we were all out of the park? One issue we did have was a van parked on Polwarth Terrace just before the Harrison Road junction - I wonder if, if we'd known it was there, we could have changed at short notice and come down Harrison Road instead?

    (I don't think the van driver was planning on being there very long, mind you, given that it had its I am illegally parked hazard warning lights on.)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. SRD
    Moderator

    Ah - that was the lorry that then made a right turn up Gillsland and kept us from getting through the green at the Harrison Rd junction, resulting in said spread-out-ness, given we were going to 5yo speed.

    In previous years we didn't go out Harrison Rd because of the difficulty of getting people off the canal path access AND because of the NNS starting at 11, there were a lot more cars and people at Polwarth Church than normal on a satrday morning. Also football parents parking on harrison Rd too.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. fimm
    Member

    Thank you, SRD. I know I've done at least one other feeder ride from Harrison Park, but I can't remember what we did!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    I came in from the Holyrood Park/St Leonard's direction behind a mix of adults and children, tag-alongs etc. The new cut-through at the Pleasance and then at South Clark Street was a surprise. I'd have been happy taking my kids along there when they were young. As it was my eldest met us from her city centre flat and jogged to Holyrood.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. Chug
    Member

    Also from the HP ride. I agree with Mr Greenroofer - weight of numbers thing was key to a ride where people felt safe. Trying to keep everyone bunched up may also need some mobile sweepers chasing up and down the line as Roibeard pointed out.

    The route description and junction tactics were well described at the outset, but as fimm said, keeping the kids' speed in check was more tricky than was anticipated (as was reminding them that it was a road, and that there was traffic coming the other way...).

    Maybe the marshals could have spent more time together working out details and contingencies, but a reminder to parents that children need to be supervised may have been worth just as much. (Thanks to the Bromptonist who came forward and gave them an ear-bashing - his own offspring included I think)

    Putting 3-4 adults on the front to block the road and keeping everyone else behind would be good - in fact this is what happened at some points - we had a triptych of Bromptons line abreast leading the ride.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. fimm
    Member

    Chug, did I meet you at some point? (I was the marshal on the Brompton with the GIVE US SPACE FOR CYCLING sign).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. HankChief
    Member

    Interested to know how smaller rides coped...

    We (the marshalls) on Corstorburn had a very straightforward plan.

    Claire at the front with a bright jacket taking a steady pace.

    Biketrain at the back with a 6ft panda in trailer taking a wide position on the road.

    Stickman & I helping at junctions and then riding up to the front to do the same at the next one.

    Thinking now of our route, the only lights we had were Balgreen toucan pelican crossing, Kings Theatre & Melville Drive Toucan.

    Lots of uncontrolled crossing, but the traffic was relatively light and we had a steady stream of riders so the person blocking the junction had some justification to do so and the drivers seemed happy to cede priority.

    I think blocking green lights must be harder.

    Having a 'dress up your bike' table at the start helped to put everyone into a good mood and to show that we were doing it for a reason.

    I'm not sure about unFeeder rides, as everyone will want to have leave at different times & potentially cycle at different speeds and you'd need keep the volume of marshalls to do it safely.

    I also wonder if the added hassle of organising a unFeeder ride would put off potential ride leaders...

    Happy to hear alternative views.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

    Claire at the front with a bright jacket

    It's amazing how many photos I spotted that bright jacket in!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. HankChief
    Member

    Oh, and thanks to a prompt from @greenroofer I too got our feeder ride registered with the Council & Police as an official event.

    It was very easy to do - just a straightforward form sent in a month before.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. SRD
    Moderator

    could one of you please write a one-page (or less) 'how to run a feeder ride' that we could stick up on the Pop website?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. Re. the suggestion on the other thread of the various feeders meeting around the Kirkgate and cycling up Leith Walk together - I'm not sure some of the newer & less confident riders we had on the Leith Feeder would have joined us if that was the route to POP.

    Leith Walk isn't for the faint hearted or those who might struggle up the long incline. The nice 'cycle lanes' are full of parked cars, and then they run out just as the road surface becomes horrendously potholed.

    The short on-road section we had along Marionville / Meadowbank was stressful enough for those with kids and those not used to riding in traffic.

    Until we get the kind of safe, segregated infrastructure we're protesting for, many would prefer to get to POP on the gentle, off-road routes where they can chat, listen to the birds tweeting and generally enjoy a genteel ride without having their nerves shredded dealing with impatient drivers who see a line of slow cyclists as a an excuse to release their pent-up, apoplectic rage.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. Chug
    Member

    @Fimm - Yip - I was at the front with the tagalong, trying (ineffectually) to restrain the kids.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. Claire
    Member

    Interestingly, I didn't really have any eager youngsters bolting ahead. Maybe my super bright Dutch orange jacket had them squinting so much they couldn't see ahead of me ;)

    I loved the bike decoration. Highly recommended! Got people talking and gave a feeling of togetherness.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. Chug
    Member

    Maybe the bike decor slowed them up??

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. Must confess to be a bit smitten by the Ward feeder ride idea too.

    Edinburgh has 17 Wards, so we'd need 17 volunteers to organise those as Primary feeders. Surely thats achievable?

    Ward centres are roughly:

    1. Queensferry
    2. Balerno
    3. Gyle
    4. Granton
    5. Inverleith
    6. Corstorphine
    7. Sighthill
    8. Colinton
    9. Craiglockhart
    10 Morningside
    11. Bute House
    12. Pilrig
    13. Leith
    14. Craigentinny
    15. Newington
    16. Gilmerton
    17. Portobello

    17 "wee" Critical Masses merging into 4-5 larger CM's at e.g.

    haymarket
    tollcross
    Waterloo Place
    Commie Pool

    then all congregating at the meadows for PoP could be a really wonderful sight to behold!

    It would take a lot of organising, a fair bit of courage and time too. Mind you, we have approx 50 weeks...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. spytfyre
    Member

    the HP feeder ride did well if a little strung out, I was somewhere in the middle with the tow bike so I was not in my usual place filling the lane however I did encourage space filling from my family and keeping the line from my 9yo on other roads. I think I know the blue jumper wearing brompton rider who was helping block junctions (if same guy who did it at the roundabout at Polwarth) agree it could have been better communicated before setting off that we wanted to fill the road not just squeeze into the side so all were on the same page. Leaving by Ogilvie and Ashley Terrace works better than squeezing out onto Harrison Road with all the parked cars (nearly new sale was on)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. jdanielp
    Member

    I helped with HP too. Whilst I would say that the Ogilvie and Ashley Terrace exit mostly worked well, a combination of the bikes already being strung out along the path from Harrison Park, the quick early pace at the front and a bit of hesitation in getting going part way down the line made things difficult from the start - I initially held back a car coming up Ogilvie Terrace and the driver switched off her engine, but as soon as the gap in the cyclists came up she switched in on again and I didn't feel I could justify holding her while the stragglers caught up. In retrospect I should have held my ground but I was also wanting to try and get myself to the next major junction before the pack. Having some pre-planned options to detour along a quieter side street or two to regroup might be useful, although a more bunched up approach as described above would be good.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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