CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
@acsimpson: It's there anything in the RTA which requires the pedals to be connected to the wheel? Or does it just require the motor to cut out when the pedals stop turning?
The various bits of legislation that cover EAPCs are explained here, with clear references to the actual regulations. The first criterion listed on that web site is:
cycle must be fitted with pedals that are capable of propelling it
with the rules about motor power & cutoff speed following.
So no chain = not an EAPC.
@baldcyclist: The pedelecs.co.uk forum has a pretty good "sticky" thread which goes in to a lot of detail about the regulations applying to e-bikes:
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/pedelec-law-the-details.37594/
There is a discussion of the particular points you raise within it:
Kit Motors
Be aware that hardly any of the above applies to kits or any home construction, the regulations only being for manufactured pedelecs. So both individuals and suppliers operate in a legal vacuum in which all try to supply and/or use as closely conforming to the complete e-bike law as they can, trusting that is acceptable. That has always worked throughout all of Europe and the UK without any mention of a possible prosecution, providing the three main points of the law are adhered to, i.e. 250 watts maximum assist, 15.5 mph maximum assist speed and power only when pedalling
Bear in mind, though, that that is just the start of it - there's a lot more in there (I did say that it goes in to a lot of detail!) In summary, though, it's a bit of a legal grey area, though there is a process by which approval can be sought for a given single vehicle.
I get the impression that the kit retailers rely on hand-wavy and/or incomplete detail in their answers to specific questions on the subject. Basically, you can build anything you like for use on private land, but they maybe don't make that as clear as they should. (See also: retailers of e-scooters and 'mini' off-road motorcycles.)
"If I could basically cruise at 15mph for 20 miles that would be awesome, no dipping to 10 on the hills etc"
I think that will depend on (a) the hill, and (b) the capacity of your battery. I usually ride my Bosch-powered eMTB on the Eco (hmm...) assistance setting but I do sometimes click up to higher settings if I'm feeing lazy or just plain knackered. The Turbo setting is pretty awesome but it drains the battery much faster than Eco, and there are some hills that even 250W of assistance won't get you up at 25kmph (though it will usually get you up).
To add: though given that, based on the case of Thomas Hanlon, a jury of the great British public either doesn't seem to be able to grasp or just doesn't care about the fairly simple and basic insurance and registration requirements for users of motor vehicles, I suspect the current situation is unlikely to be clarified and/or effectively enforced any time soon.
(I still believe that there is a case to be made for road traffic offences to be prosecuted in specialist courts, given that such a high proportion of the public - and, one suspects, the legal profession - seem, deep down, to regard compliance with road traffic laws as optional.)
Been looking for a replacement for the gtech for the last few months, The gtech really struggles with me on anything over railway gradients, I thought I'd found it in the halfords (£1100) hybrid I got my dad earlier in the year but I got my work to sign up for the generic cycle scheme rather than the halfords one.
So I'm back to bike research, half the problem is being tall and a bit (quite a bit) overweight I'm right on the weight limit for a lot of the budget non brand bikes. I can't really justify much more than £1100-£1600 so Tern and the big brands are pretty much non starters.
I was considering hybridising one of decathlons hard tails. More appropriate tyres, narrower bars, slightly longer stem etc.
This would get round the puny weight limits and I can't see any hill in Edinburgh causing it issue. I could also get round to glencourse reservoir for walks on the south side of the Pentlands via the military road over Dreghorn.
Hi Steveo - I use a decathlon e-mountain bike for commuting and it's fantastic. (Mine was an e-ST-520 - looks very similar to the one in the link)
Only things I changed for commuting was adding panier rack and big mud-guards. The tyres would be hard work without the electric assist but with it's no problem - and having a mountain bike means no pot-hole worries. It's fun to ride too.
My commute is out of town to Fife - for in town it might be worth going for narrower handle bars - they are big.
And it's great up hills, the gearing isn't ideal for commuting I guess, I spend most of my time in the smallest rings. But if you did want to take it up into the hills that gearing would mean pretty much anything is do-able.
I far prefer it to the more up-right dutch style bikes - feels far more agile/controlled to me.
I liked mine so much that my husband got one too. He's 6'2" and to be honest the frame is better for him than me. (Step-over height for me is almost an issue, even on the small)
Thanks that's encouraging! What guards did you get. I've just been out on the gtech and realised I'd really miss full length guards.
I'm a fan of full mudguards for commuting. It's hard to get ones big enough for those tyres but we found these which fitted well...
https://www.bikester.co.uk/sks-bluemels-75-u-long-mudguard-set-29-M796655.html
(Although not from that supplier)
Thanks @fionam!
“
It’s my shop. I’ve been having a few mental health issues so unfortunately I’ve called time on the shop. Been badly let down by staff, suppliers and my landlord. The stress of the workload during pandemic and Brexit has taken its toll on me and I just can’t do this anymore.
“
Swytch now offering test rides in Edinburgh/Leith:
https://www.swytchbike.com/book-a-test-ride/
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Experts found that people riding motorised electric bikes tended to take fewer and less physically demanding trips than conventional cyclists.
However, they said the bikes could encourage people who might otherwise not bother to cycle to give them a try, reaping health benefits along the way.
“
Some pretty chonky caveats on those results when you dig into the paper.
*Heart rate was monitored using smartwatches which are fine for end-users but questionably accurate in a scientific context.
*Maximum heart rate of study participants wasn't actually measured under controlled circumstances but estimated by formula.
*Previous studies focused on urban users, this includes rural and exurban as well(they mention that only after insinuating that the previous big study is less valid because it used self-reporting and subsequent estimation by formula, rather than their own methodology).
Interesting, but the media coverage seems more motivated by Man Bites Dog(and in the usual places, glee at poking cycling in any way they can find).
The bit that amused me was the conclusion that "people riding [ebikes] tended to take fewer and less physically demanding trips" right next to the observation that people riding ebikes tended to be older, with more health and weight issues. Why wouldn't they control for that?
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Mayor Street said: “It was wonderful to open the new Electric Life showroom in Castle Vale, Birmingham. I’m convinced the future of personal transport for short journeys is going to be light electric vehicles so it was great to see the latest e-bikes, electric mobility scooters and e-motor bikes from a Birmingham business growing on the global stage. Easy and affordable access to vehicles like e-bikes, combined with our plans for new infrastructure, will be essential to help us to move around sustainably in the West Midlands.”
“
https://bikebiz.com/tandem-group-officially-opens-new-e-mobility-showroom-electric-life/amp/
Electric Life... like a Pure but with electric golf trolleys!
**** Star buys ****
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• Bespoke airbrushed Batman™️ paintwork by Award-winning artist Dave Bristow
• Officially licensed product in co-operation with Warner Bros
• Unique ownership certificate
• Hand-crafted embossed saddle
Adult Electric ScootersUnleash your inner child with our vast range of adult electric scooters. Now available at Electric Life, our electric scooters allow for convenient travel and offer an eco-friendly alternative to driving. Perfect for private land usage.
What remains of my future at age 75 is becoming rather electric
Currently running two front hub Dellinger kits
One on a delta trike and the other on a very nippy laid back mid/low recumbent racer
So I have two batteries and can get about 80 miles if I carry a spare
Being an Australian company ,the kit comes with some stuff and information you are not meant to use in UK
Namely a throttle control and info on changing PAS speed
Flirting with illegality, I use both- thumb throttle great for starts at lights if in wrong gear ( more of a issue on a recumbent)and for a wee rest if knackered but it gulps down battery juice compared to just PAS. Altered speed for PAS to 18 mph as well
So now as a sad old codger I can overtake young men in Lycra on their 5 grand carbon bikes in some situations hoping they don’t spot that I am electrified
Few pleasures in old age ,but this is one
I am working harder to go 20+ mph on flats which is the natural cruising speed for this very low air resistance bike ,but actually faster on descents - I guess the weight of battery and motor assist gravity- about 45 without pedalling down granites as opposed to 35- 40 on naked bike
On balance I think I do more exercise with the e assist- perhaps not as strenuous but more often as the lethargy and dread of sweaty climbs is eliminated so usage is increased ,more than compensating for reduction in pedalling effort
I find front wheel hub works very well - sort of 4 WD on a two wheel machine
Certainly a long time trend for me if the good Lord permits
Should add that having e assist on a recumbent goes along way to overcoming the Achilles heel of laid back cycling - they are generally slower and require more exertion when climbing- the weight ,long chain ,inability to stand on pedals and engage different muscles
That sounds great! I haven't ridden my Baron in a while, and now my daily drivers are both ebikes I think it might be a rude awakening!
HPV do ready made Speedmachine. Only legal with plates!
Recumbent format will hardly need much assist much of the time as you say @jss
Once I regain my fitness a bit need to meet up so you can ditch me on hills!
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We’re also on the cusp of an electric cargo bike revolution. I can see it happening, because with the Tern GSDs, we can’t get enough of them.
“That’s quite exciting in a city like Bristol, with people thinking about doing away with the second car, or buying things like the Tern GSDs for the school run, shopping or just generally getting about. I do very much see that opportunity, and I think fortunately we’re right there on it.”
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Tern GSD is very well thought out. Must be one of the most common family bikes now. That and Elephant Bike that avoid the limitations of battery power and improve customer fitness with every use!
Now got Veloe Multis at shop which are similar concept as GSD or EB but with 24" wheels.
Mud Dock quote:
Over the years we’ve put about 15,000 people on bicycles. If I’m looking for something to put on my grave, something that I was pleased to have done, it was creating cyclists,
Still seeing a steady trickle of new GSDs around the Greenbank/Meadows Quiet Route, including some fetching Dark Sage colour ones, many going between the two South Morningside campuses. I think earlier this year we had ten cargo bikes at drop off one morning - mix of GSDs, Urban Arrows, Bakfiets, Riese & Müller. Lots of parents indicating that they'd like to try it out, we on the Parent Council Transport Committee are trying to encourage them but cost often an issue. Might point some people to the SW20 community bike in our next newsletter...
Pic from another parent outside the school gates at the Canaan Lane site earlier in the year.
Good to see- I’m guessing that Terns are stylish/reassuringly expensive enough to appeal to the Morningside set. The fact they’re both smaller and less polluting than Range Rovers is a bonus!
That's quite a fleet of GSDs, plus a Raleigh Stride.
Five lightweight e-vehicles with a total battery capacity of between 2.5 and 5kW. No need for charging infra.
Most modest solo seated EV uses battery double to four times of all these combined plus no pedalling option ;-)
I'm told cargo bikes are middle-class toys though! :-)
Bit like 4x4s then.
Think a modest car is considered by many as an essential?
A bicycle less so (unless you're in NL).
So by extrapolation a 4x4 is seen as a luxury (although maybe not in snowy, rainy Highlands).
A basic bicycle for most people is a sport item to be used occasionally. Like skis or barbecue set! Neighbours have bikes in backyard that have not been used since lockdown.
So if most can live without a basic bike as an essential then any expensive variant is seen as an indulgence (aka toy).
Desirable things are product placed on media and bikes rarely appear. 'His and hers folding e-bike as a handy car accessory' anyone? Celebrities endorse many other things of course.
Will this ever change?
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