CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

No Cycling on the Castle Esplanade

(38 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from chdot

  1. So on Friday I was bikehike-ing the 7 hills of the city (there should be a ride report at some point this afternoon) and number 6 on the list was Castle Rock. As I was ascending the cobbles I could see a red-jacketed person exiting her booth just before the esplanade seemingly intent on me (call it a 6th sense if you like - it was right).

    "Sorry sir, cycling isn't allowed on the Esplanade." It was clarified that I could walk up with the bike, but not ride it. 'Fine' I thought, 'it's not much of a hardship'. But walking up something struck me as odd.... The number of cars parked there (presumably contractors for work going on) which I assume had not hovered into place. Then as I was walking back down a taxi dropped off a couple of tourists executing its U-Turn on the Esplanade.

    So I stopped at the booth and queried why, when bikes are not allowed, cars are. I was the very image of politeness (which probably accounts for the three people in the booth being very polite and chatty back).

    "Health and safety sir. People can see cars, they can't see bikes."

    Yes dear reader you read that right. Bikes, and not just the recumbent sort, are invisible to Joe Bloggs. I explained that people really should open their eyes in that case, and pondered aloud the existence of a risk assessment on the relative dangers of cars and bikes (being H&S officer for your work helps in these matters). It was an explanation that suggested two things to me.

    Firstly there is an implicit assumption that drivers and cyclists merely drive and ride in a manner that does not take into account pedestrians for, secondly, it suggests that it is up to the pedestrian to avoid conflict in such situations by being able to see the object.

    One of the red-jackets did say to her cohorts (actually, this is harsh, they themselves were very nice and merely following orders), "Actually, he has a point you know." I was told that I should complain to Historic Scotland.

    Now as far as I am aware Historic Scotland is a public body and therefore subject to FOI requests. And so I need questions.

    Naturally I will ask if a risk assessment has been carried out and what the conclusions were; also I will ask for accident rates by transport option on the Esplanade.

    Does anyone know if they have bike stands there? I saw a couple of bikes chained to railings which would suggest not...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    Haven't been there for ages. Used to be guarded by soldiers with machine guns.

    They didn't stop people on bikes.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. Smudge
    Member

    They didn't stop one of your contributors who cycled up there in the summer in (camouflage!) Army uniform... I wonder if it is a new rule or just being selectively applied!?
    Anth, pm me if you would like details to accompany your request ;-)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. smsm1
    Member

    Take critical mass up there?

    The other pet hate of mine is being asked to dismount when getting on a car ferry with my bike. I find it easier to cycle it on, than to push it, especially when I have tires that work well on wet surfaces, and the panniers are full.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. LaidBack
    Member

    Now as far as I am aware Historic Scotland is a public body and therefore subject to FOI requests. And so I need questions.

    Good luck..! HS are the people who maintain Edinburgh's top parkland expressway at Queen's Drive.

    HS are ambivalent towards bikes it seems. Cars, buses and taxis deliver most of their custom (but they are committed to greeness too of course!).

    When I was working up at the castle the boss of Big House Event used a bike with no problem. So get your hard hat on and a hi-viz with your company name on the back!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. LaidBack
    Member

    Sorry - Mac stalled. D

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    It happened to me, too, when I went to meet RJ as part of C+ Great Forum Ride back in, oh, 2005 or something. I was happily triking my way across the Esplanade at walking pace when Mister Security told me off and made me tow my machine.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. LaidBack
    Member

    They should have nice message board at front - making this all clear in a nice user friendly sort of way.

    Tour buses - yes please :-)
    Stretched Limos - yes please :-)
    Taxis + private hires - yes please :-)
    Bicycles - no thanks :-(

    LB Tours never goes there as the squeeze out on George IV Bridge and Castle Hill's car, bus and pedestrian free for all make it just too awkward and slow to deliver.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. Greenroofer
    Member

    Took my daughter there on the back of my bike a couple of weekends ago. Due to the state of the cobbles up Lawnmarket (worst in Edinburgh??), I pushed the bike up to the Esplanade and so avoided a challenge from the people in red jackets at the Esplanade entrance.

    I approached the 'guards' on the drawbridge (they too had red jackets and no guns) about where the cycle parking was and they said there wasn't any, but that I could lock my bike to the railings.

    These were actually remarkably unsatisfactory, as they start on a stone plinth some way off the ground and aren't ideal if you have a young passenger on board in a child seat.

    I felt that the response to any challenge to this was likely to be the time-honoured "we keeping getting asked for bike parking, and we keep telling people 'there's no demand for it'"...

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. wee folding bike
    Member

    I got the "no cycling on the esplanade" a few years ago. I pushed it up to the gate, flashed my Historic Scotland card, folded the bike and took it in with me. Nobody seemed to mind as long as I didn't ride it.

    Staff at Osborne House were a little surprised to see me push it in the grounds but were fine once they understood that I intended to fold and stash it with the buggies.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. Roibeard
    Member

    It's now moved on a bit, and there's now no cycle parking either on the esplanade, although I did cycle in a loop for my last visit...

    Apparently bicycles are a security risk, so off to FoI I go...

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. dougal
    Member

    Probably the same security risk they pose at Waverley.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. gkgk
    Member

    @roibeard, just out of interest, what sort of thing would you ask in a FOI request for this.

    Seems to me that Historic Scotland don't offer general visitor parking on the Esp so we can't get a bike rack to match that parking, but that if they maybe do allow esplande parking for private hire events, we could request equitable bike parking provision.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. Roibeard
    Member

    Why they've deemed cycles to be of greater security risk than rucksacks.

    Tourists are free to enter the castle carrying as much as they like, without being searched or scanned. Which is presumably not deemed to be a security risk, but chaining a bicycle outside metre thick walls is a security risk to the soldiers on duty.

    Compare with Sainte-Chapelle, Paris, which is inside the Palais de Justice, and where visitors are searched and scanned and bags run through an x-ray machine...

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I seem to recall Blackness Castle (also Historic Scotland) had a single Sheffield stand at the last visit. Bicycles pose a different security risk there?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. Roibeard
    Member

    Blackness Castle isn't currently used by the army, and Historic Scotland are blaming the MoD.

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. 559
    Member

    Not defending the lack of bike parking at the castle, but security can be a valid concern, see
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_bomb

    However would also recognise that every other form of human transport can also be used malicously.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. A bit odd considering motorcycling is very much allowed, and indeed applauded on the castle esplanade.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. Hmmm... if "People can see cars, they can't see bikes" is true, how come they were able to see the one you were on?

    Perhaps the sight of a man gliding through the air with his legs going up and down but whose feet were not touching the ground was enough to indicate you were on an invisible steed? ;-)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. AKen
    Member

    A bit odd considering motorcycling is very much allowed, and indeed applauded on the castle esplanade.

    Problem solved. If you do need to cycle on to the esplanade, make sure you do it in a parallel formation of three bikes with several friends forming a human pyramid on your shoulders. You won't get challenged.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. They must have overlooked their own rules when various celebs have cycled onto - or set off from - the esplanade on their charity rides, then?

    Or do people only see bikes we they're ridden by famous people?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Or do people only see bikes we they're ridden by famous people?

    I think there was a bit of a stooshie when a help for heroes (or similar military-related charity) sponsored cycle was denied entry to the esplanade. Think they were doing a Tower of London to Edinburgh Castle ride.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  23. fimm
    Member

    Actually, now I think about it, a group of us got told off for (apparently) wanting to run onto the Esplanade. Actually all we wanted to do was go onto the Esplanade and take some photos, so they let us do that, so long as we walked...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  24. DaveC
    Member

    Do you need to cycle through the Esplanade to get anywhere other than the castle? Its not exactly a through route. Its a magnet for tourists and they are most probably too busy looking at the views and stepping back away from the group of tourist friends to get them in the shot, to notice anyone cycling past, to avoid you. What is the big hastle with not being able to cycle on there?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  25. kaputnik
    Moderator

    What is the big hastle with not being able to cycle on there?

    Probably because Historic Scotland seem to claim it's unsafe to do so, but ramming it full of tourist coaches and using it as a car park isn't.

    Plus it's nice to cycle places that offer exceptional views. You may even want to visit the castle. But not by bike as it currently stands. What if access to other historic national monuments prohibited you / actively discouraged you arriving by bike? Arthur's Seat for instance. It's managed by the same authority after all.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  26. Kenny
    Member

    I think you are allowed to arrive by bike. You just need to get off and push the last 50 metres, apparently in the name of safety. Odd, but meh.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  27. Roibeard
    Member

    You are allowed to arrive by bike, but you can't push the last 50 metres, or park the bicycle there, indeed you have to find somewhere else to park, and the nearest stands are 0.3 miles away at Victoria Street (or Old College, which is locked at the weekend)...

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    Think you mean New College...

    Are there not some in James Court?

    Railings at The Hub would do.

    (Not excusing The Castle situation!)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  29. Roibeard
    Member

    I did indeed, and I should know better...

    CycleStreets has parking at Makars' Court, but I don't even know how one enters there.

    The Castlehill railings all look:

    a) Cast iron, therefore not to be trusted

    b) Owned by someone likely to take sufficient offence to have bicycles removed.

    I didn't want the hassle being with family and having been "moved on" already.

    Incidentally, and more positively, I've now suggested Castlehill to the council as a location for new stands...

    Robert

    Posted 10 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    "CycleStreets has parking at Makars' Court"

    Ah, I thought that bit was also called James Court.

    Posted 10 years ago #

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