CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Leith Walk - parking in cycle lanes not enforceable?

(37 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by threefromleith
  • Latest reply from Morningsider

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  1. threefromleith
    Member

    Has anyone heard that the enforcement of parking in the Leith Walk cycle lanes was actually a mistake, and that the wardens cannot ticket anyone for doing so?

    Involved in a discussion on Twitter after a number of people have noticed wardens ignoring cars in the bike lanes, and am being told that the Council has openly admitted that it was a mistake and no tickets should have been issued. I've not heard anything about this, but someone is adamant that it's the case.

    If it IS true, then it's an admission of a massive waste of cycling budget on lanes which we were told would be kept clear and parking in them rigidly enforced, when in fact there's no legal basis for doing so.

    I've emailed my friendly local Green councillor (who I know will reply) to see if he can clarify whether the council has said any such thing to anyone.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    Apart from the obvious proviso that you should never believe anything you read on Twitter, it would be interesting to know what the actual situation is.

    I was cycling on Leith Walk today, and yesterday (big runs to LiDL on Pashley Pronto). Noticably fewer bike lane parkers than usual today. Maybe coincidence, or maybe there's some enforcement going on? Folk were however parking today inside the coned off areas where resurfacing work will (eventually) take place, so certainly no shortage of parking of questionable legality...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. Fountainbridge
    Member

    My understanding is that Edinburgh parking wardens CANNOT ticket a car parked in the cycle lane.

    They can ticket a car parked in an area with parking restrictions - but the cycle lanes do not have any restrictions.

    I gave up on Lieth Walk

    (Edinburgh parking wardens generally on do something when there is revenue lost to CEC)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    Perhaps the CEC belief that enforcers could ticket doubleparkers there has turned out to be untrue(?)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. threefromleith
    Member

    I'm very wary of anyone who claims anything on Twitter, especially when they say the council publicised their ticketing mistake widely, yet I'd hear nothing about it, read nothing about it, seen nothing in the EEN (who'd have endlessly hammered the council with a great fanfare for their mistake), and nothing on CCE ;-)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. crowriver
    Member

    Double parkers challenged this in 2012. No idea if the regulations have changed since then...

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/council-faces-hundreds-of-appeals-against-parking-tickets-issued-across-city-1-2673574

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. gibbo
    Member

    If it IS true, then it's an admission of a massive waste of cycling budget on lanes which we were told would be kept clear and parking in them rigidly enforced, when in fact there's no legal basis for doing so.

    Any time I go down Leith walk, I see multiple cars parked in them.

    They shouldn't be allowed to pay for these cycling lanes from the cycling budget if cars have first right to them.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. gkgk
    Member

    If the lane was paid for by the cycling budget, any parking fine revenue should go to the cycling budget too!

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. dougal
    Member

    From crowriver's article "Mr Foster accused the council of revenue raising"

    Such an accusation!

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. Fountainbridge
    Member

    My experience in watching the wardens round Edinburgh is that they will only ticket cars that are parked on double yellows or where they do not have a valid parking pass or ticket.

    They do not ticket cars parked in any of the pedestrian zones (Grassmarket, Castle Street, Royal Mile, Rose Street, beside art gallery etc).

    As a side note wardens are only contracted to visit bus lanes 4 times a day and other places twice a day. The info is in recent CEC transport meeting minutes. Saturdays they only have something like 4 wardens on covering the entire city, Sunday just 2.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. Klaxon
    Member

    I wonder if the wardens themselves have accuracy / appeal rate as a KPI and thus would be incentivised to only ticket the most obvious open and shut cases.

    Pure speculation on my part.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. mkoerner
    Member

    A year ago, I’ve contacted both, the council and the police about the ongoing parking in the cycle lane on Leith Walk.

    The council replied:

    From your enquiry, it appears that the problems that you are encountering are caused by poor or inconsiderate parking on Leith Walk.
    The Police should be able to take action against vehicles parked in the cycle lanes, where an actual obstruction is caused.
    With regard to our Parking Attendants, they should also be able to take action as parking restrictions are present adjacent to the cycle lane. However, when issuing parking tickets in these circumstances a five minute observation period needs to be given and we often find that the vehicles are removed before the parking ticket issuing process is complete.

    Following up with the police, this was their answer:

    I’ve been looking for some clarification regarding parking on cycle lanes: Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply.
    I checked Leith Walk last night and the cycle lane has a broken line. As I understand it this is an advisory lane so, technically driving, stopping and parking is not illegal.

    So it indeed seems to be the case that the cycle lane nothing more than lip service from the council and instead is just an additional parking lane, and there is nothing which can be done about it.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. jonty
    Member

    Surely the double parking aspect is illegal though - or does there need to be a report from the blocked-in car in this instance?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. crowriver
    Member

    "the cycle lane nothing more than lip service from the council"

    Yep. That's what happens when "local traders"* are up in arms about something (in this case the something was possible segregated bike lanes). Precedent set for Roseburn...

    * - ie. shop owners who like to park outside their shop.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. dougal
    Member

    "Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable."

    Heaven only knows how "unavoidable" transmuted into "necessary to minimise the distance to Greggs".

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    "Precedent set for Roseburn"

    Not really.

    The whole point of segregated infrastructure is to minimise parking on/in it.

    Hope laws/implementation/enforcement cope!

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. Klaxon
    Member

    If we're remarking on how mis-sold phases 1-3 was, let us also not forget the justification of 'extra wide bus lanes being great for cyclists' - a dubious statement in itself as it means there's width for a proper lane - while the consultation was in progress to cut hours to peak mon-fri only

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. Luath
    Member

    @mkoerner worth going back to the council to say that police will only enforce parking restrictions in cycle lanes marked with a solid line - then asking for all cycles lanes in Edinburgh to be marked as such.
    As of 22 April this year, cycle lanes with a solid line don't need a traffic order (see section 3.48 of http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523916/DfT-circular-01-2016.pdf

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. jonty
    Member

    The (legal) parking bays are on the inside of the bike lane so, unless crossing it to get there is a recognised exception (which I think it might be - similar to bays next to greenways) then doing so would block them and probably won't happen.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Build segregated lanes then neutron bomb the rest from space. It's the only way to be sure.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. crowriver
    Member

    "The whole point of segregated infrastructure is to minimise parking on/in it."

    Yeah sure. The point of "local traders" up in arms is to stop the segregated infrastructure being built, thus maximising parking opportunities. That's what happened at the Foot of the Walk, and it set the precedent for Roseburn "local traders" to follow. PG/KNS is just a useful conduit for "local traders" to defend the status quo.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. jonty
    Member

    What is the history of the painted Leith Walk lanes? I assumed the council just hadn't got on the segregated lanes bandwagon by that point, but recently I've heard a lot about shopkeeper complaints. What was the original plan they objected to?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. crowriver
    Member

    My recollection is thus (I may have got some bits mixed up, I blame old age). The original plan was to just resurface Leith Walk. Then early in the consultation there was a lot of lobbying by "us"/Greener Leith etc., for the council to be more ambitious, reduce car parking and put segregated cycle lanes between parked cars/loading bays and the pavement. Cpuncil went to Scottish government and secured millions in funding for an "exemplar" active travel corridor on Leith Walk. However once the revised draft designs were consulted upon, there was a big backlash from "local traders" who were already fed up with the tram works saga. The council then issued some statement justifying painted door-zone cycle lanes in term of a "different culture"* in that part of Leith Walk (!) and "insufficient road width" (!!!).

    * - By which I presume they meant the culture of free-for-all, anti-social double parking espoused by drivers who stop in the area.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    ""

    As part of the ongoing Leith Programme, there are continuing plans to re-design pavements and cycling facilities and manage a variety of waiting and loading/unloading requirements along Leith Walk. To deliver these plans, various changes are now proposed for Leith Walk between Brunswick Street and Montgomery Street

    "

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11196&page=16&replies=452#post-232151

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. Rob
    Member

    "That's what happened at the Foot of the Walk"

    Aren't they about to put segregated lanes along Leith Walk?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. Klaxon
    Member

    Only for Pilrig St south to Picardy Pl (where the Roseburn to Leith project picks up)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. Rob
    Member

    oh. I'd assumed the rubbish that was there was temporary and they'd properly link into Leith Links->Portobello.

    Never mind then, I'll keep going the long way.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  28. ih
    Member

    "Only for Pilrig St south to Picardy Pl"

    ?? Did I misinterpret those plans for the section from Brunswick Road to Annandale St? That didn't look segregated to me on plan, but just lanes in the road. So I thought it would be red chip lanes from the Foot to Pilrig, then segregated to Mcdonald, then red chip again up to Annandale.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  29. Klaxon
    Member

    Lanes behind parking with a buffer.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  30. ih
    Member

    I'm worried about those parking bays being so close then to the narrow cycle track. It's highly likely that passengers will open doors without looking. Even more likely than drivers doing same.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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