Amsterdam has roughly twice the population of Edinburgh, but more than four times as many tourists per year. That really is overtourism. Edinburgh's heading the same way, but it's not quite as bad yet - except during the festival(s).
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Holiday Flats Edinburgh's Ruin"
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Posted 5 years ago #
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I've checked the date three times. It is definitely not April 1st.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Unlike short-term let apartments that ... take away housing stock in tenement blocks in the Old Town
I've no real issue with the City Chambers being turned in to apartments, but surely by making them in to serviced holiday apartments they are taking away from what could otherwise be housing stock? Basically, they want to turn it in to an hotel on the QT.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Groan about the serviced holiday apartments.
I'd even prefer them being grace-and-favour apartments for Cooncillors/Cooncil staff rather than more holiday lets in the Old Town.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Fetch my nano violin:
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
“We passionately believe that there is a role for an organisation that manages tourism in Edinburgh and manages the city’s brand and reputation in this area. An organisation that takes the views of all, from residents to the tourism businesses, from councillors to visitors and all those in between.
“
Posted 5 years ago # -
Classic example of garden path/Anaphora
The firm is not marketing Edinburgh as the world collapses is it?
Rather the firm tasked with marketing Edinburgh is on brink of collApse?
I hope?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Maybe both?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Joyce McMillan - not the festival, but the commercialism and the lack of power/money from local authorities to contain it.
Posted 5 years ago # -
So, farewell then Marketing Edinburgh. "This is Edinburgh" was your catchphrase. Now you are becoming acquainted with its true meaning.
In a world of over tourism, it is quite right the council are cutting this organisation adrift. We don't need more tourism.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“We don't need more tourism.”
“We” is always the interesting bit.
Clearly there are ‘wes’ who do - perhaps those with a commercial interest or councils who think the income from this is greater than the consequent expenditure and/or benefits of employment outweighing the wider disbenefits.
There are people paid to ‘prove’ this is, on balance, ‘beneficial’.
Inevitably all a bit smoke and mirrors, wishful thinking and full of assumptions.
Also there are tinges of nimbyism.
No doubt some of the ‘antis’ are travellers not tourists and may help local economies by buying buns in cafes.
As with the main theme of this threat, there has been a rapid and comprehensive change in the housing ‘market’, Airbnb has brought serious downsides after it evolved from the original idea of matching travellers with beds.
I think many of ‘us’ would think that Edinburgh is ‘overdeveloped’ and (probably worse) development isn’t even the ‘best it could be’ in terms of design, provision of activity travel/better PT as a priority, public space etc.
The Scottish Government has a significant responsibility here having made various assumptions and presumptions and consequent policies, inc restricting LA finances and ability to make ‘local policies’. (See link above.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
“We” is always the interesting bit.
Just speaking on behalf of Edinburgh residents. Clearly those with an interest in providing visitor accommodation, or working in the hospitality sector (for example) may take a different view.
Arguably there was a "need" for something like Marketing Edinburgh back in the 1990s after Edinburgh (like many cities except London) had experienced a marked decline in population during the 1980s. However the city is now growing, and has been doing so for more than twenty years. A couple of years ago we overtook the previous peak population (in the early 1970s) and the city's growth shows no sign of stopping.
Tourism is an expanding industry globally, and we have seen a notable visitor increase in recent years, possibly spurred on by the fall of the pound in 2016 making the UK a relatively cheaper destination. It can even be argued that the "city marketing" of Edinburgh has been too successful, meaning the organisation tasked with this is no longer required. Amsterdam has already decided to stop marketing itself internationally. Yet the visitors still come, as they will to Edinburgh, even without Marketing Edinburgh...
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
But the concerns have provoked a backlash from bodies like Marketing Edinburgh amid claims that “everybody hates a tourist”had almost become the strapline of the city due to the chorus of complaining.City council leader Adam McVey had to intervene to defuse a furious row last August over barriers blocking views of Edinburgh Castle that were installed on Princes Street to accommodate concerts at the Ross Bandstand.
Organisers of a new community-led campaign launched earlier this year to “defend” Edinburgh against over-tourism, gentrification, property developers and the privatisation of public space in the city raised specific concerns about the impact of the “festivalisation” of the city and a “rampant growth model” it claimed was guiding council policies.
“
Posted 5 years ago # -
I was down at Holyrood today, parliament and palace. Tourists having a blast
Posted 5 years ago # -
How do you know they were tourists, not residents reclaiming their city??
Posted 5 years ago # -
I was the resident reclaiming my city, they were the tourists and we all got along famously.
Posted 5 years ago # -
"How do you know they were tourists, not residents reclaiming their city??"
The other day (last month in fact) was walking with daughter back from a workshop at Dynamic Earth (tourist attraction but still has some activities for local kids), and it was sunny and hot so daughter stopped at new water station outside parly to top up her bottle. While waiting in queue (others were all tourists) I was approached by a French family who asked if I was from here (it must have been obvious). Confirming this in my reply, was then asked for directions to.....Dynamic Earth.
Tourists are fine, especially when they're polite (some are definitely not) and I hope they enjoy visiting our city. But we have enough now, all year round. No more than this please. The city is full!
Posted 5 years ago # -
@Rosie: I've just read that Joyce MacMillan piece and I have to say it seems balanced and quite sensible. She highlights some very relevant issues which contribute to the conflict between tourism and a habitable city, over and above the simple volume of visitors.
It is a bit short on actual solutions, though, unfortunately.
I doubt anyone wants Edinburgh to turn in to the north European equivalent of Venice.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I took a couple of "tourists" to the castle yesterday and we had a ball, however that wasn't the case for everyone there. Having a bit of inside knowledge meant we could get a table in the cafe with the best view in Edinburgh and see the 1 O'clock gun rather than being at the back of a 7 deep crowd.
However, to say it was heaving would be an understatement. They weren't quite turning people away but on the day ticket purchases would have had to wait at least an hour and a half to be allowed in. Not the best experience for any tourists coming to Scotland's No.1 paid attraction.
Rather than marketing Edinburgh to pull in more dissapointed tourists we need to work out what to do with them once they are here.
Posted 5 years ago # -
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Travel has become as accessible as McDonald’s, making sure global tourist arrivals reached 1.4 billion last year, two years ahead of the World Tourism Organization’s long-term forecast (Europe absorbed half of that number, a 6% increase over 2017). In 1995, global arrivals numbered only 525 million.
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I can’t help but wonder, though, what we’re actually seeing as we travel in Europe these days. Is a forest of selfie sticks what I wanted to show my daughters at the Louvre? Where are the Jews in Budapest’s Jewish quarter, taken over in the last few years by “ruin bars" in which it’s next to impossible to meet a local? When was the last time I set foot on Prague’s magnificent main square without being elbowed a dozen times? Is a trip to Barcelona complete if you have to avoid not just the main drag but also every famous location for fear of being trampled? Where do I take a guest in central Berlin, if nearly all restaurants there don’t expect anyone to come more than once?
“Overtourism” isn’t merely a loaded word. It can be quantified in terms of tourism density (number of bed-nights per square kilometer) and tourism intensity (bed-night per capita). A major EU report on the overtourism phenomenon, published last year, found 105 areas in a state of overtourism — with density about three times as high, on average, as in other areas and intensity about twice as high. Predictably, places like Venice, Prague, Paris and Barcelona made the list — but so did Dublin, the Isle of Skye, Copenhagen, Sintra in Portugal, the center of Warsaw, the Plitvice lakes in Croatia. They attract fewer tourists than the traditional destinations, but are less able to deal with the inflow.
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https://pure.buas.nl/ws/files/710245/Peeters_ea_research_for_TRAN_committee_overtourism_2018.pdf
Posted 5 years ago # -
I wonder where all these extra tourists are going? Anyone hazard a guess?
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Figures released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) for Q2 2017 – Q1 2018 showed 3.4 million overseas tourists visited Scotland, spending £2.4 billion, an increase of 29% compared to the previous 12 months.
The number of UK visitors to Scotland rose by 11% to 12 million while expenditure increased by £401 million to £3.1 billion.
Around 29% more European tourists visited Scotland, with 2.1 million visits recorded. Across the UK as a whole, the number of visits from European tourists fell by 2% and expenditure fell by 1% during the same period.
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https://www.visitscotland.org/news/2018/office-for-national-statistics-overseas-travel-tourism
Drilling into the figures, it seems while more tourists are coming, they are spending less money. The main growth in accommodation is self-catering and camping/touring. Hotels and hostels are down on 2017. Maybe more budget travellers coming to Scotland? Mostly from Europe and Rest Of The World (excluding North America).
Posted 5 years ago # -
In camper vans on the north coast 500?
Posted 5 years ago # -
Scotland seems popular with the rest of the U.K. Primarily and with Europeans.
Rest of UK less popular with Europeans
However would like to see the stats for London
Posted 5 years ago # -
@gembo, yeah could be.
Also in Edinburgh, staying in AirBnB tenement flats?
London is the biggest/most popular tourist destination in the UK. Then it is Edinburgh as the second biggest/most popular tourist destination in the UK. Think it used to be York, Stratford upon Avon, many moons ago vying for second place but Edinburgh now cruised past them.
rUK visits to Scotland six times more than Europeans, but at standstill. Also spend much less per head than Europeans. Scots internal tourism three times more than Europeans, but in total spend exactly the same, i.e. 1/3 per head of the amount Europeans spend. Presumably because not many booking accommodation, hiring cars, etc.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Posted 5 years ago #
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https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/20/ten-cities-ask-eu-for-help-to-fight-airbnb-expansion
(None in UK)
Posted 5 years ago # -
Those of you who hate tourists, especially the vapid selfie-taking sort, might find this ever so slightly tongue in check article interesting:
Posted 5 years ago # -
So yesterday I was chatting to some USAnian tourists on the train, as you do. Pleasant, polite folk from Vermont, a father and two sons in their late teens/early twenties. First visit to Scotland. They were on their way back from a day of golf on the Old Course at St Andrews (the dad is a big golfer). They've been to Edinburgh Castle, hiked up Arthur's Seat, and are taking a bus trip to the Highlands and Loch Ness at the weekend. Snippets of information they shared with me without my really asking:
- It's so easy to get around by public transport here
- They have been walking a lot - 6 or 7 miles a day. They don't normally walk so much.
- Edinburgh has lots of great places to eat out, and very reasonably priced. Not just Scottish stuff (they tried haggis), but also excellent Italian and Mediterranean food.
- Their AitrBnB is near LeithI warned them about the potential for midges in the Highlands if it's overcast.
These were mainstream middle class Americans. They're doing all the classic stuff, probably checking TripAdvisor or some such on their phones (note that Arthur's Seat is on the bucket list these days). A few years ago probably would have stayed in a budget hotel for their week in Scotland. They're in an AirBnB, presumably a flat off Leith Walk somewhere.
It struck that this is now the new normal - everyone likes to see themselves as independent travellers, and the convenience of online information and services facilitates this, even for people not looking for anything unusual. And Edinburgh is popular because not only is it beautiful and interesting, but also since 2016's currency nosedive it's very reasonably priced.
(I was secretly pleased that they were walking and taking trains and buses instead of hiring a car).
Posted 5 years ago #
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