https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/design-cycle-walk-meadows-castle-terrace/
And another one!
Segregated paths on Lady Lawson Street and Castle Terrace!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Consultation: Meadows to Castle Terrace
(86 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Well it's nice of them (CEC) to think of us, but...
Looks pretty sub-standard at first glance e.g.
- more "back-roads" cycle lanes;
- 2-way cycle lane on 1-side of the road only and only 2.1 metres in width!Completely avoiding Lothian Rd, Lady Grey St and Brougham St, which is where the cycle lane should really be.
Posted 8 years ago # -
What are novice/inexperienced/young/old cyclists supposed to do when they get to the end of Castle Tce?
Sorry buddy, but you're on your own. Stuck in the middle of 6 lanes of motor traffic on Lothian Rd.
Posted 8 years ago # -
This looks excellent to me. Of course Lothian Road needs sorting out too, but we often use this route to get home from the west side of Princes Street or Usher Hall, because the mound is too steep and the bridges are too scary. We usually end up walking our bikes 'the wrong way' up Lady Lawson Street.
Agree that the widths need sorting...
Posted 8 years ago # -
The last drawing - I hope they're not suggesting cycling budget gets allocated to moving the Lothian Rd ped crossing (& keeping it 2 stage and islanded, so useless for bikes, either riding or pushing)?
2.1m is nowhere near wide enough for 2-way running with a child trailer or a bakfiets IMO.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Overall, a big improvement on the current situation.
I can see why they've gone for two-way on one side: makes flow simpler, without having to fight too many side entrances. Though IMO one-way either side would probably work too.
I share the concerns expressed above about being dumped at the end of Castle Street, and the crossing of Lothian Road: the only improvement here is it's more direct. It's otherwise exactly the same as before. Not good enough: it should be a single phase crossing for pedestrians and cycles.
I shall think on it a while more before filling out the survey.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Does anyone know what the minimum width of a bi-directional cycle lane is supposed to be according to the relevant publications (e.g. Designing Streets, and particularly any CEC documents, etc.)?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Does anyone know what the minimum width of a bi-directional cycle lane is supposed to be according to the relevant publications (e.g. Designing Streets, and particularly any CEC documents, etc.)?
Table 5.4 in Cycling by Design: "Absolute Minimum Width" = 2.0m "Operates satisfactorily for two-way flows of up to 200 cycles per hour."
Posted 8 years ago # -
The segregated cyclelane on Lauriston Place (page 3 and 4) - is that a new proposal? What does it do when it gets to Tollcross?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Also of note from Cycling by Design: The "Margin (grass verge or buffer strip) between cycleway and a live carriageway" absolute minimum is 0.5metres.
This is not met on Lauriston Pl (0.25m), nor at the lower end of Castle Tce (0.30m) and is unspecified on Lady Lawson St (appears to be less than 0.5m).
and...
"Desirable Minimum" width for a 2-way cycle lane is 3.0m.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I do love how they've got the Eastbound-on-Lauriston-Pl right-turning (into Chalmers St) cycle lane to the left of the straight-ahead lane.
Bonkers!
Posted 8 years ago # -
"The segregated cyclelane on Lauriston Place (page 3 and 4) - is that a new proposal? What does it do when it gets to Tollcross?"
It doesn't get to TollX, does it? The seg lane veers off down Lady Lawson St, the existing 1-way non-seg paint & red chip lane from Lauriston St junction feeds into it.
The No Right Turn for cars & especially for bikes into West Port from Lady Lawson St is a little controversial, I feel. Only leaves Cowgate/Candlemaker Row, King's Stables Rd or coming from Bread St to go straight over the remodelled junction as legal methods of accessing the Grassmarket while remaining in the saddle. Counterproductive.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It doesn't get to TollX, does it? The seg lane veers off down Lady Lawson St, the existing 1-way non-seg paint & red chip lane from Lauriston St junction feeds into it.
I dunno. At the bottom of page 3 it looks like there's a curbed segregated two-way cyclelane heading towards Tollcross?
I do love how they've got the Eastbound-on-Lauriston-Pl right-turning (into Chalmers St) cycle lane to the left of the straight-ahead lane.
Looks like the turning right lane is expected to wait for the (toucan?) crossing to stop through-traffic before crossing. Great in theory, possibly a bit chaotic in practice.
Posted 8 years ago # -
That's the one that would then go down Lady Lawson St.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Given that the left turn from lady Lawson into West Port for southbound cycles isn't banned, I suspect that the ban on the right turn for northbound cyclists is a mistake. I will email and ask for a clarification.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hadn't spotted the realignment of the pedestrian lights by Festival Square. Certainly that should be made into a one step crossing.
Is it possible to walk or cycle between the buildings on the south west corner of the sq u are to get anywhere useful? There is a gap between the buildings, but I can't see from Google maps whether there's a path.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@UtrechtCyclist Yes this can get link you up to the canal via a couple of crossings.
EDIT - the path I am thinking of is from the NW corner of Festival Sq
Posted 8 years ago # -
@UC
Leads to Chuckie Pend, whose uneven setts would make cycling difficult, or the car park of Capital House, which has permission for a new office to be built on. Basically it leads nowhere that isn't easier accessed by bike via Exchange Crescent.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Basically it leads nowhere that isn't easier accessed by bike via Exchange Crescent. "
AHEM. The SW corner of Festival Square (currently bunged up and cycle parking blocked for the installation of Edinburgh's Winter Festive Period) also leads to the popular and convenient underground access/utility/delivery zone of the conference centre, which can also be reached (but not legally escaped) through the old entrance to the magic automatic car park between SWIP/Aberdeen and Atria. The only escape is through the non-cycle-detecting lights half-way up the West Approach Road, to which the new cycle lane was installed a year or two ago.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@wingpig Really? I didn't know that. I thought all the routes had steps.
The building they are proposing to build would have a pedestrian deck linking Capital House alley & the plaza in front of Atria, but whether it would be wide enough for responsible cycling, I don't know.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Have just been for a little cycle around.Some thoughts:
1) Chalmers street had loads of traffic. Is there a big car park in Quartermile?
2) Usually it's better to have one way segregation on each side rather than two way segregation on one side, but I'm not sure this is true of Lauriston place. It would be relatively easy to get two way segregation from Forest Road (if they ever sort it out) all the way to Tolcross along the north side.
3) Had never explored behind festival square before, didn't seem very exciting as a through route if you've come from the meadows, but there are lots of workplaces there. Didn't have time to explore Wingpig's magic underground access route. The pedestrian crossing should be one stage and allow bikes, and while I guess cycling is legal here (they have some routes and bike parking) it would be nice if that was more obvious.
How wide is 2.5m? Is this about the width of the bike half of NMW near the tennis courts?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@UtrechtCyclist this might help: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16360
Posted 8 years ago # -
Very useful! Makes me feel less negative about 2.5m, although 3 is of course better.
Posted 8 years ago # -
useful for us middle class folk who spend Saturday morning running between the farmer's market and edinburgh young musicians.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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Makes me feel less negative about 2.5m, although 3 is of course better.
Don't forget that 2.1m with 25cm of separation from oncoming thundering trucks will feel a lot narrower (and feel a lot less safe) than on NMW where you can happily drift right to the edge of the grass on one side and even over to the pedestrian side (gasp!) on the other.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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Gordon Bennet!! Why put a 2 way on the wrong side?
I don't see why any parking is kept on Castle Terrace? There is a wacking great carpark to the east, which I have never seen full! Considering the only exit from the south end of Castle Terrace is Lady lawson or Spittle leading to a restricted Bread St why dn't they just do away with the short term parking?
Car drivers like to complain about non tax paying cyclists, but considering hoe much ON STREET parking available, they have nothing to complain about.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I don't see why any parking is kept on Castle Terrace?"
Coach park?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot,
Are you thinking of Johnston Terrace?
Castle Terrace is between Saltire Court and the Carpark opposite the Castle.
Posted 8 years ago #
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