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meanwhile in Hull...

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Has this already been posted? an interesting historical/contemporary take

    “Hull has fantastic potential because it’s so compact and flat,” he says. “But if you switch on [the radio] you realise how much antagonism there is between different road users. That conflict has been allowed to develop, so it’s a case of re-educating people. If you’re a cyclist, don’t swerve out in front of the car. If you’re a driver, have a bit of compassion.

    “But we also need more direct off-road cycle routes,” Fowler says. “Cyclists in Hull need to lobby for this. If not, they will be completely ostracised.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/dec/05/cycling-heaven-hull-city-recapture-1950s-pedal-power-heyday

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. Rosie
    Member

    I have cycled in Hull. Quite easy to get out the city on a segregated route that went past the docks, but getting in from the south past the Humber Bridge was a fight with dual carriageways at the edge of the city (there is a marked safe cyclist route but not that easy to find).

    Within the city possible but not pleasant - very busy with cars.

    I was told not to lock my cycle by the station overnight as it would get trashed.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Rosie
    Member

    On a point in that article, there is a class aspect to cycling. Posh in the 1890-1910, then the rich got cars while the poorer got bicycles for work and leisure. 1930s cycle clubs very common while cycling became a little more looked down on among the middle classes - for teachers and vicars and librarians (like Larkin) - the less wealthy. Then in the 1960s the working-classes began to get cars, & this happens all over the world. In China and India the kind of person who once would have cycled as a matter of course now has a car partly as a mark of status.

    So cycling is seen as a hobby for a certain kind of middle-class person - the Guardianasta & the MAMIL.

    When I was in the Council Chambers for the presentation for the Roseburn to Leith route at the Transport & Environment Committee I had to leave early to get back to work. As I was walking out I overheard a couple who were cross that their particular issue had been taken off the agenda because the cycle route had left no time. In Edinburgh working-class accents they were complaining that it was a load of posh folk who cycled who wanted this, and cyclists were a menace anyway, getting off roads and onto pavements.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    I don't dispute most of that, but I don't think that's necessarily an accurate representation of the cycling demographic. someone was talking recently about the 'hidden' cyclists - shift workers and so forth. I guess the big difference is that lots of us 'middle class' cyclists, do it by choice (like people taking trains eh Ed1? http://edin.ac/2gVmstS)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. Rosie
    Member

    Sure enough & I would guess that if cycling becomes the ordinary way of getting round it won't be infra dig for anyone to cycle (cites the usual Denmark, Holland) where it's practical.

    A lot of people have to do a couple of jobs these days. These tend to be poorly paid & I wonder how much they could save if they did cycle between the jobs.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    Hull was picked by someone surprising recently as their favourite uk city. Because his heroes came from there - William willberforce and some one else. Sorry can't remember. It used to have its own telephones system. I have been once or twice. Housemartens are from hull. The owner of the football team wants to change their name. Fans against. Lovely cultured left sided Scottish footballer Andrew Robertson plays for them, I watch out for him, though they usually end up in a relegation dogfight. Humber bridge is very long. Hull is city furthest from any other city in uk allegedly. City of culture soon. Nearby Grimsby and Scunthorpe will be jealous.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    It's complicated.

    Don't forget it's a UK 'truth' that middle class people don't take buses.

    That was one of the reasons why Edinburgh 'had' to have the tram - even though the business case predicted that there would be little "modal shift" between cars and trams.

    Edinburgh is special.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. Rosie
    Member

    I liked Hull & enjoyed my visit. Plenty to see for a break especially if you're a Larkin admirer, as I am. It's near Beverley as well, which has a beautiful cathedral.

    Cycling across the Humber Bridge great as well.

    It got bombed badly in the war & the centre isn't too marvellous. The 60s university is hideous.

    I visited some friends-of-a-friend when I was there and they were quite astonished someone should holiday in Hull. .

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "In Edinburgh working-class accents they were complaining that it was a load of posh folk who cycled who wanted this, and cyclists were a menace anyway, getting off roads and onto pavements."

    Some truth in all of that.

    It's partly about geography and historical (in)actions.

    Edinburgh has Marchmont, Morningside, the New Town etc.

    Full of University staff and students and other current (or potential) cyclists. They exist there partly because Edinburgh was too slow/conservative to get round to building its inner ring roads.

    It's impossible to know if "a load of posh folk" mean 'people more middle class and/or richer than us'.

    It's a pity that some people think that 'cycling's not for us' for artificial reasons. It's possible to spend vast amounts on bikes (as it is for cars), but few can genuinely not afford to own/run a bike.

    Whether they have secure storage space or travel requirements that a bike would fit are clearly genuine issues.

    There have been discussions within CEC over many years about 'should we spend cycling money on areas where people cycle or where they don't'.

    The pragmatic and practical answer has always been (mostly) the former.

    The current Edinburgh 'fuss' is about Leith Walk to Roseburn - very much City Centre/where people cycle.

    It's only very recently that the idea of 'extending to the Gyle' has been a thing.

    Maybe 2017 - before and after the election - should be used to have serious thoughts about where people live/work/could cycle.

    Obviously a lot of it is in the ATAP, but maybe time for a wider (outside the 'cycle community') debate?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Rosie
    Member

    Parking & storage is a big issue in tenemented Edinburgh and on estates without lifts. I had a friend in Magdalene who lived on the third floor & I had to carry my heavy bike up 3 flights of steps when visiting. You couldn't leave it tethered on the ground floor in case of theft/trashing.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Rob
    Member

    "Nearby ... Scunthorpe will be jealous."

    Not a chance. Certainly not publicly.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "

    As we’ve reported for years now, there’s a clear intersection between affordable housing policy and cycling: The most bike-friendly neighborhoods are also the ones where we’ve seen tremendous market pressure exerted — and many of them are now unaffordable to many low and even middle-income Portlanders. And according to the National Household Travel Survey, low-income households drive much less than those with high-incomes.

    "

    http://bikeportland.org/2016/12/14/biking-walking-advocates-testify-at-inclusionary-housing-hearing-197234

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    Thanks to PS for link to this (and starting new, relevant, thread - not just about Hull)

    "

    Lawrence Brown, a community health professor and activist at Morgan State University, observed on Twitter that, like so many transportation amenities, bicycle infrastructure appeared to be concentrated in the city’s more affluent—and whiter—districts

    "

    http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/12/enlisting-bikes-in-the-fight-against-inequality/511088

    Posted 8 years ago #

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