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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Tram track issues - specific solutions
(165 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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I call cow poop on the whole thing. Yellow boxes and ASZs are routinely ignored, as are advisory cycle lanes.
Almost the last thing I want is an inadequate head start on some motorists who're already resentful and belligerent over the fact I exist.
The scheme could maybe work in a world where all cyclists are fit twenty year old men and all car drivers give a flying fox but they aren't and they don't.
Posted 6 years ago # -
When they put in an advance green light in a junction on my commute in Cambridge it became much more pleasant. Plus I once got the satisfaction of seeing a driver rev and edge into the bike box getting ready to try and beat me off the line and over the junction realise they had to wait another 5 seconds as I set off into the sunset .
If anything I think it reduces resentment as it serves as a reminder of the danger there is to cyclists and that cars don't have some magical kind of right of way.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@toomanybikes
Fair enough, but I'm trying to imagine the parent of a twelve year old going 'Ah yes, she can cycle to school because now we have x'.
When x = a head start on resentful Edinburgh motorists the statement evaluates to FALSE. Also for x = paint of any colour or distribution.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Also fair enough. The proposed changes are a long way from making it 8-80 suitable cycling infrastructure but at the moment it's a long way from anyone suitable cycling infrastructure and I do think the advance greens will help.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Well, time will tell. I may just have a rather too jaded view of the Edinburgh motorist (of which I am one of course).
It can't be worse in any case.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"wait another 5 seconds"
You don't get that long at Macdonald Road. Three at the most.
Posted 6 years ago # -
York -
“
Cyclists are detected within the Advanced Stop Line (ASL) on Queen Street. This triggers the main signals to give a 3 second cyclists-only signal, plus a further 2 seconds normal red-amber phase, before other traffic is released on a standard green signal. This gives cyclists a head start over other traffic to negotiate the busy junction and to make their intentions clear to drivers behind.
“
Not really long enough.
Posted 6 years ago # -
My tweet:
A woman dies, hundreds are injured and this is the best the Council can come up with? It's not good enough. It's unacceptable. Haymarket as dangerous as always. Go away and design something A LOT better. @lmacinnessnp @davidfkeySNP @CllrChasBooth @CllrNickCook
What a shower of sh*t. A holding effort until city centre transformation grips things properly...?
Posted 6 years ago # -
My previous thoughts (upthread) on advance greens for cyclists:
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17809&page=2#post-252744
Posted 6 years ago # -
My email just now:
Dear Lesley,
I'll be as polite as I can be.
Are the 'improvements' presented in the lastest consultation seriously the best the Council an come up with? A woman has died, hundreds of people have been injured, many seriously. And in response we're given some ASLs, advance traffic lights and moving a bollard or 2. There is nothing to make the West End junction safe. Nothing to make Haymarket safe for those coming down Morrison St or from West Maitland St.
What brief were the consultants given? This consultation, frankly, doesn't deserve to be engaged with - the changes to the road environment are so trivial they will not make these junctions safer for cyclists in any tangible way. The advance traffic light phasing would not have saved Zhi Min Soh's life. The vehicle would have caught up with her at the point where she tried to turn right (indeed, the picture in today's Evening News shows how the cyclist has barely moved off before the motor traffic phase begins) You need to make, literally, concrete changes to the road environment or people are going to keep being killed and seriously hurt under your watch. This needs to be, in the main: segregated cycle ways through these junctions, where possible; dedicated cycle phases, as seen in the Netherlands, to allow cyclists to completely clear junctions before motor vehicles; eliminating certain motor vehicle manoeuvres from junctions and preventing vehicle access completely down certain streets.
Spokes have provided a number of suggestions for the West End and other junctions - such improvements should be the minimum aim before more money is spent digging up what's there already.
Maybe I'm missing something? Is there a Phase 4 that's going to make it all better?! I look forward to hearing from you. I shall be at tonight's meeting, so I would be happy to speak then. I think you should anticipate more of this sort of reaction.
Yours sincerely,
Posted 6 years ago # -
@wingpig Yes I think I've timed the southbound advanced green for cyclists at 3s. Not sure if it's the same in all directions.
Posted 6 years ago # -
This all sounds like ineffectual tinkering.
To repeat my earlier comment up-thread:
"
Unless I'm missing something, bike-only green light phases only really help if you arrive at the junction when the light is red and have time to filter to the front/ASZ. I'd hope for a solution that avoids that particular lottery.However, if you combine it with some proper segregated infrastructure, that would work.
"Posted 6 years ago # -
Ok, my letter was a touch premature. Phase 4 is going to be part of the CET project. But, how long are we going to have to wait for that?
I must say, the words from the Tram Officer were not encouraging. I hope the councillors are able to remind officers, yet again, of the endless policy priorities they have passed.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Given the current schedule of project presented elsewhere and assuming no magical speed solution for CET or any of the others I suspect our children will be heading towards secondary school before anything significant is seen on the ground from CET.
Posted 6 years ago # -
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/
Lots to take in here. Early release lights etc. The narrowing of the end of Grosvenor St is interesting.
Indeed. Option 2 (making it no entry and left turn only on exit) would be even better.
Does anyone have thoughts on how well the proposed layouts would work for cyclists heading for Torphicen St?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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Reminder: Consultation on the proposed designs for cycle safety improvements along the existing Edinburgh Tram route.
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/
The important thing is to at least specify your preferred option (1 or 2) for Grosvenor St.
Option 2 makes Grosvenor St oneway and prevents left turns into Grosvenor St from Dalry Rd, which makes it far safer for cyclists (will prevent left-hooks here), IMHO.
Closes 11 Apr 2018 - one week to go...
Posted 6 years ago # -
My response to the consultation. Feel free to crib as required:
Posted 6 years ago # -
Closes tomorrow.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I don't want footways to get smaller either, but there's unfortunately literally nowhere else to take the space from.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
CITY of Edinburgh Council should rethink its controversial plan to narrow the pavement on a busy section of Princes Street, campaigners claimed last night.
Living Streets Edinburgh – responding to the council’s Tram Route Cycle Safety Consultation – said narrowing one of the busiest pavements in Edinburgh – at the junction of Princes Street and South St Andrew Street – could compromise safety.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
I can't help thinking that Living Streets are picking a fight for the sake of a fight.
As Frenchy implies, the tram tracks cannot be moved. The buildings also cannot be moved.
So unless you want to build a bridge, or subway, or ban bikes altogether, the space has to come from the footway
Posted 6 years ago # -
Princes St is nothing like as busy as it was when the pavements were first extended I'm not convinced anything would be lost for pedestrians in reality.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Consultation closes today
Living Streets response to the consultation:
Interesting they don't state which option they prefer for Grosvenor St. And complain about the loss of footway on Princes St, but offer no specific alternative other than, "a fresh approach to improving cycling safety"
Posted 6 years ago # -
Would suggest anyone yet to respond suggests the Cutlins Rd crossings are constructed as tiger xings and not informal, unmarked crossings as proposed.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Tram Route Cycle Safety Improvements consultation report
https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/tram-route-cycle-safety-improvements/
Posted 6 years ago #
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