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Brake Advice TRP Hy/rd

(32 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by acsimpson
  • Latest reply from acsimpson
  • This topic is resolved

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  1. acsimpson
    Member

    I upgraded from BB5's to TRP Hy/rd brakes a couple of years ago. They brakes are a vast improvement (although it's not hard to improve on BB5s), however the front brake has recently started to loose power. On tarmac I normally brake with just the front so it has has a lot more use than the rear which is still on the original pads and is still working as well as the day I got them. I do tow kids on a tagalong/trailer which will work the brakes harder but the issue is on an unladen bike too.

    If you aren't familiar with the Hy/rd they are a hybrid brake with a cable which actuates a hydraulic cylinder at the caliper. This gives the benefit of self adjusting pads without the expense of a full hydraulic setup.

    To get the front to operate with any more than a slight increase in friction I have to tighten the cable well beyond what the manufacturer advises. This creates a closed system so the pads can't adjust because the hydraulic piston isn't fully open when the lever is released.

    Can anyone make a suggestion on how I can get the initial power back? (Or a safe alternative which leaves the brake workable).

    Here are my thoughts so far

    They have been bled earlier this year so that it unlikely to be the problem. This was due to me accidentally popping the pistons out, however they were loosing performance before that.

    The cable outers are fairly generic budget options (Jagwire CEX on the rear and unbranded equivalent on the front). When the levers are pulled hard there is visible flex in the cables so would upgrading to low/no compression cable make a difference?

    I wondered briefly if my Sram Apex levers were not compatible with the brakes (ie didn't pull enough cable) but as the rear works this can't be the case.

    One option I'm pondering is adding an inline cable adjuster to the system which would allow me to keep the hydraulics closed while riding it and then easily open them when off the bike. Would this be safe, leading to a steady decline of braking power akin to a fully cable system. Or could it potentially lead to sudden failure with no warning?

    So does anyone have any other ideas about what I should check next?

    (Oops that was a bit longer than I intended so thanks for persevering).

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. gembo
    Member

    Afraid I have no idea. However, sounds like if I ever go hydraulic disc brake then that will be another issue I take to the shop given my uselessness as a mechanic

    As an aside. I used to call an Allen key an Allen key and then someone, maybe my dad said that they are actually called a hex key as an Allen key is what you bleed aradiator with. Like a girl Allen key

    HOWEVER, Allen is just trademark. Like Hoover. Hex key is the generic. A radiator bleeder key is called a radiator bleeder key.

    Just demonstrating my utter uselessness at all things mechanical.

    Daylight upon us

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. 14Westfield
    Member

    I can comment on your specific type of brakes but id do a few thinkgs to isolate where your issue is coming from.

    a) watch at the pad end when you pull in the lever; how much do the pads move? compare this to the rear.

    b) check the pads themselves for waer; as you primarily use the front brake wear will be mnore advanced. either swop with rear or replace.

    It sounds as if the sweep of the lever is not enough to push the pads out enough - which would be caused in a previosly working system by excessive pad wear increasing the gap or cable stretch in your hybrid sytem.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    They have been bled earlier this year so that it unlikely to be the problem.

    It sounds to me like you have a great deal of air in the hydraulic portion of this complex arrangement.

    If I were you I'd get an MTB-riding mechanic to bleed them and see if that fixes it.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    I have a spare radiator bleed key if that helps?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @gembo

    It does help, thanks. You won't like it when @acsimpson slams on the anchors and your heating comes on but them's the brakes.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. gembo
    Member

    What time of year is @acsimpson thinking of braking @iwrats? Don't want the heating on too early. Actually he only uses the fromt brake to stop it would take front and back to get the heating on in my house.

    Reminds me the feckers at Scottish hydro been taking money off me all year and never serviced the heating. Dem really is da breaks

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Reminds me the feckers at Scottish hydro been taking money off me all year and never serviced the heating.

    I'm not touching your heating.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. gembo
    Member

    Wise, though it has not broken down all summer.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. unhurt
    Member

    This thread seems to be plumbing new depths of drift.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. gembo
    Member

    @unhurt feel free to retrieve your manteau for that :-)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @unhurt

    It's fine - we've found the cause of the brake issues. All that follows is the glittering tail of that diagnostic shooting star.

    It's about time someone came up with a hydraulic drop-bar lever.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. Blueth
    Member

    Like the ones fitted to cyclocross/"gravel" bikes?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Blueth

    Cool. What's with this cable nonsense if the job's already done?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. hunnymonster
    Member

    "Compressionless" brake cables make a world of difference on TRP Spyres... and the HyRd came with a note highly recommending their use (and a particular brand/type, if memory serves) - Jagwire KEB-SL (Kevlar 'compressionless') is sticking in my mind, but that could be old age.

    Also https://www.trpbrakes.com/userfiles/file/TRP%20HYRD%20Technical%20Bulletin%20English%20Rev%20B.pdf

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. unhurt
    Member

    @gembo I had to look that up. Now Merriam-Webster are questioning my motivations: "What made you want to look up manteau? Please tell us where you read or heard it (including the quote, if possible)."

    @Iwrats - the brakes had a difficult childhood?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    the brakes had a difficult childhood?

    Now I feel like an insensitive heel.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. gembo
    Member

    Manteau is French for coat is it not?

    Or as we used to say (from the show Diffrent Strokes)

    What you talking about Willis?

    your Merkin though, everyone has one of them these days

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Manteuu is French for coat is it not?

    I insist on using redingote whenever possible. Which is always.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. unhurt
    Member

    I'd like to see frock coats return to the sartorial scene as city bike wear. Pairing one with a helmet might be considered bad form though, cf. your educational link:

    "One English advice manual warned that if a man "goes to a garden party in a frock-coat and straw hat, he is condemned more universally than if had committed some crime."

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. gembo
    Member

    Too true, frock coat crying out for Topper

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. unhurt
    Member

    Can we expect you in a frock coat & topper combo at the next PoP? I think you have the right amount of dash to get away with it.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    In my mind a frock coat calls out only for a leather flying helmet.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. unhurt
    Member

    I'm not sure Edinburgh is ready for gembo in leather. (Edinburgh may not even deserve gembo in leather.)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. Moose
    Member

    acsimpson - there is a thread-drift-survivors group meeting later today at the barge. dress code - no leather.

    I have found that changing the stock pads on my hyrd's made some difference. I have also heard that the caliper's reservoir doesn't come fully topped up from the factory and that lever reach can be tightened up by brimming it with mineral oil (a relatively straight forward task).

    I don't know if you are also running the trp stock rotors. I am and am going to change these as they've also been implicated in the juddering. Something to do with the wavy design that it supposedly to create a leading edge that prevents pad glazing.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. acsimpson
    Member

    @Moose, Thanks for the advice. Now for an update should anyone find this topic with similar issues.

    I ended up measuring my rotors and discovered that the front rotor was worn by 0.2mm (10%). I swapped the rear rotor onto the front and performance was improved although still not as good as new. I have now purchased a shiny new rotor and braking performance has been restored (other than on snow).

    Posted 6 years ago #

  27. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Quite a mystifying tale. It's impossible to diagnose these things over the web, but I doubt disc thickness was the issue here. The pistons should have followed the wear on the rotor easily.

    The disc could have been contaminated and that could have been transferred to the pads?

    It'll take a bit of use for the new rotor to roughen up and match the old pads.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  28. Grahamn
    Member

    I reckon your problem sounds like it was a similar issue I had with a set of the Juin hydraulic calipers (similar idea to the TRP ones) that after 6 months the pistons started sticking and I received the below from Edgesports after I asked for a refund.
    Seeing how I hadnt even ridden through a Scottish winter I just took them off and reverted back to BB7s

    We are sorry to learn that you have an issue with one of the calipers. I can confirm that the brakes are covered by a 1 year warranty.

    In our experience, the issue that you
    are currently experiencing is resolved by applying some mineral brake fluid to the pistons and the actuating arm, this lubricates the moving parts and rehydrates the seals. Once the oil has been applied, operate the brakes to help the oil disperse through the moving parts. Please note that mineral oil must be used and not DOT brake fluid.

    To undertake this, it is generally best to remove the pads from the caliper to prevent any pad contamination.

    After consultation with the manufacturer, it's a regime that we are recommending to be undertaken periodically to ensure maximum performance and longevity of the brakes.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  29. Blueth
    Member

    Apart from ensuring a clean disc and pad surface, there is a trick to setting up hydraulic discs to give a good initial bite.

    With the wheel out, the brake should be very carefully operated to get the pads as close together as possible consistent with allowing enough of a gap for the disc to fit in to place and turn freely. Theoretically, this should not be necessary but it does make a big difference.

    Your part-worn disc could probably have been retained for a while using this method.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  30. acsimpson
    Member

    Thanks, I certainly can't rule out some contamination on the rotor although the old pads are working fine on the new rotor.

    I've kept the old disc as a spare and now that it's had a good scrub I might try it again sometime.

    The sooner hydraulic drop brakes are affordable the better.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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