CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

The Sustrans proposals for Picardy Place/Leith Street

(868 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from crowriver

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  1. Morningsider
    Member

    Stickman - I reckon even Melton Mowbray council would be impressed by the number of pork pies CEC has managed to squeeze into that document. Some highlights:

    "Any fundamental review of the current design would put at risk these agreements, the delivery programme, and the Scottish Government funding"

    "Following the constructive stakeholder activities both in September and November, the design has been amended to reflect the feedback received"

    "The sustainability impacts of the redevelopment of the St James Centre...are considered to have no significant environmental impacts and comply with the requirements of the Planning Service."

    "The delivery of the CEC Growth Assets will reduce carbon emissions because the design promotes the use of public transport and active travel."

    Plenty more where those came from.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  2. Rosie
    Member

    Cars are the rotten boroughs of our age i.e. they count as 2-3 people when it comes to policy.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  3. Stickman
    Member

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/councillor-insists-plans-for-top-of-leith-walk-a-balancing-act-1-4673964


    She said: “I am pleased that we have been able to take a step towards the redevelopment of Picardy Place, with the approval of a design which I am confident takes into account the desires and concerns of the many people who took the time to give us their feedback.

    “We’ve worked hard, in consultation with residents, businesses and stakeholders, to hone plans which, I believe, achieve a much more 
pedestrian and cycling-friendly area while also ensuring this junction operates efficiently 
for our public transport network.

    “By developing a public space in the island site, as well as enhancing the space outside the Cathedral, we’re giving new purpose to this location.

    “We look forward to working with key stakeholders to develop more detailed designs for this area, creating a much more pleasant experience for people to spend time in or travel through.”

    Posted 6 years ago #

  4. Rob
    Member

    https://twitter.com/graphter_jim/status/957174390260731905

    It must've taken some effort to craft a tweet with so many wrong things in it.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    @Rob, aye but don't feed the trolls. Check the guy's profile: utter petrolhead. Probably has Top Gear box set on repeat in the motor as he drives.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  6. Rob
    Member

    @crowriver Indeed. I realised that yesterday when he suggested traffic reduction couldn't happen until shared autonomous electric vehicles were a reality. Busses are too polluting so it's cars all the way until then.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  7. Morningsider
    Member

    I hadn't realised that the majority stakeholder in the St James redevelopment, with a 75% stake, is APG Asset Management. This is the largest urban junction near to their HQ in Heerlen:

    https://goo.gl/maps/mEoZ5Uj2tBw

    Nice to see they are also very keen on investing in sustainable development.

    https://www.apg.nl/en/vvb/onze-aanpak

    If anyone was minded to let them know how their Edinburgh investment is failing to meet these lofty goals - as well as royally hacking off most of the city, then company details are available at:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=12765369

    Posted 6 years ago #

  8. McD
    Member

    Continuing to oppose the gyratory, but Spokes (and other groups) has been given the opportunity to "tweak" the proposals and Spokes has asked for a meeting to discuss some ideas, should it continue to go ahead.
    Contributions welcome - we are discussing internally tomorrow pm with a rough starter list of:

    1. consider redesign of proposed tram platform to platforms, freeing up space for better cycle facilities at Broughton St junction (7 below) and better crossing to Union St etc (2 below). NB if space is a problem, could the inner platform be given a small amount (1m?) of the island space.
    > 2. provide a cycle crossing from Picardy Place (PP)(island) to Union St, Gayfield Square and LeithWalk (LW)Northbound
    > 3. widen crossing stage outside Playhouse - could it be a Toucan to provide cycle access PP to LW - would be useful but (2) above more important as also serves trips from York Place Agreed - but may be a simpler crossing and a better angle for crossing the tram tracks
    > 4. confirm widths of cycleways and check suitability eg 2m 1-way and 4m 2-way (definitely not under 3m)
    > 5. confirm widths and style (Toucan etc) of crossings eg York Place
    > 6. consider angle of ASL outside Omni (Tim Smith) - it seems fine to me as keeps parallel to the crossing lines.
    > 7. improve Broughton Street to Picardy, consider early cyclists release, etc “extending the cycle lane on the uphill, east side of Broughton St” and also to consider whether direct access to the CCWEL from Broughton St could be provided across York Place,
    (see tram idea in 1 above)
    > 8. check how staggered tramline crossings from the island will function prior to the tramworks [NB may not be v important as this time gap will only be 6 months or so if their intentions are realised] The tram stop wil lbe built by the end of January? I thought that they had said previously that the tram works area would be boarded off, so where would the Broughton Street to PP Island crossing be whilst it is being constructed? I was thinking a the Tram meeting that there should be some conversation about the build stage.
    > 9. get signal sequences
    > 10. check adequacy of waiting areas from Omni to Little King Street and approach angles/corner radii of cycleways
    > 11. Is there a route from Leith Street to Broughton Street suitable for all abilities?
    > 12. will there be cycling access from Elder Street via St James Place (access to where?) Will St James Place be 1-way, and will contraflow cycling be allowed if so? I'm not sure that St James Place is continuing as a through route - any ideas?
    > 13. Leith Street uphill closure and/or cycle lane

    There have also been meetings re Tram Extension and Leith St RSO/TRO. Will try to do an update soon. Still think a "local cyclists" meet-up would be a good idea to discuss these developments.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  9. crowriver
    Member

    Marc Bouwmeister is on LinkedIn too if anyone's feeling brave and wants to send an "InMail"...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    https://twitter.com/mark_lazarowicz/status/957683411535187969

    Posted 6 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    Mark Lazarowicz (then the local MP) was one of the folk whose concerns were dismissed during the 2009 consultation by waving a bland "prior approval" get out clause at them.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    Doesn’t look like Mark will ‘let it go’ this time!

    For a short time he was CEC Transport Convenor, so he will have some insights...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  13. Trixie
    Member

    This is going to turn into another tram type thing, isn't it? As in there'll be many 'investigations' over many years complete with blame-shifting and alleged 'lessons to be learned' when it proves to be an absolute cluster that was never thought through properly.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    Unlikely to be a public enquiry.

    Some chance of ‘internal look at’.

    Little prospect of learning lessons!

    Edinburgh largely avoids the sort of corruption that ends in court, but somehow there is a ‘this is how things are done’ culture which infects new staff and politicians, so nothing much changes.

    Big projects better than small. Anything that (allegedly) ‘brings lots of money and jobs’ gets facilitated.

    Once upon a time the Council (long pre-CEC) was reluctant to stand in the way of what Scottish and Newcastle wanted ‘they could move their breweries to Newcastle’...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    Think this is relevant here -

    “

    Cllr McVey said work had been carried out, such as changing traffic light sequences to avoid queuing vehicles, and had shown it was possible to make improvements.

    But he said: “The LEZ is hugely important because it takes it to the next level and gives us the ability to take areas which have the most acute problems and take the most polluting vehicles off these routes.”

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/edinburgh-set-for-scotland-s-second-low-emission-zone-1-4675500

    Posted 6 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    Not Edin, but same old story -

    “

    It is expected that the development will create more than 400 jobs and bring millions of pounds into the local economy.

    However, opponents of the plan are unhappy about the new stadium’s location.

    “

    https://www.scotsman.com/regions/aberdeen-north-east/green-light-for-50m-aberdeen-fc-stadium-plan-1-4676181

    Posted 6 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    https://twitter.com/jomowat/status/958410206647668736

    Posted 6 years ago #

  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Here's an alternative to the St James Quarter and gyratories built by Carillion;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/31/preston-hit-rock-bottom-took-back-control

    Imagine Picardy Place as a traingular square ringed with small workshops offering restored and repaired furniture, bicycles, clothes, tools...

    The St James Quarter isn't an investment in Edinburgh it's a money-drain crudely stapled onto our municipal aorta. We get minimum wage jobs and a three lane roundabout they get the dividends and subsidies.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  19. crowriver
    Member

    #BoycottStJames and buy local where possible. Sounds good to me.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  20. Morningsider
    Member

    IWRATS - by "they" you mean those lucky Dutch pensioners who are customers of APG. They get the spoils AND to cycle about in comfort and safety - B@%&"~+s!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  21. crowriver
    Member

    As I think I mentioned last month sometime, TH Real Estate is owned by Nuveen, which is the investment management arm of TAA - Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association of America (originally endowed by Scottish steel magnate Andrew Carnegie). "Today, TIAA is the leading provider of financial services in the academic, research, medical, cultural and government fields" in the USA. Nuveen was found by John Nuveen and the Chicago-based investment bank grew to become "the largest municipal bond specialist" in the US.

    So not only are my and your taxes subsidising the pensions of USAnian public sector staff, they're also helping to underwrite municipal infrastructure projects across the USA. When the St James Centre opens, if you spend your disposable income there you will be funding retailers' rents, which will also ultimately help support American pensions, roads, bridges, schools, prisons, etc. Oh and having paid once already for Picardy Place through tax-funded loans, your consumer spending will pay the business rates which will go to pay off those loans over 30 years.

    I'm sure we're all delighted to be doing such a service for the USA.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/959067403400310784

    Posted 6 years ago #

  23. unhurt
    Member

    European Ministers of Culture The Davos Declaration - also applicable to Picardy Place - in that as far as I can see does none of the below:

    "We urgently need a new, adaptive approach to shaping our built environment; one that is rooted in culture, actively builds social cohesion, ensures environmental sustainability, and contributes to the health and well-being of all. This is high-quality Baukultur [the culture unique to an urban ensemble]."

    "High-quality Baukultur protects the environment. It supports sustainable transport and responsible land use, increases urban green spaces and promotes health and biodiversity."

    Posted 6 years ago #

  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Dear Mr WRATS

    Thank you for your email of 20 January 2018 to Nicola Sturgeon regarding the Picardy Place, Edinburgh proposal and subsequent consultation. I have been asked to reply.
    On 25 January revised proposals for the junction were approved by councillors, following an extended period of consultation. A special meeting of the City of Edinburgh Council’s Transport and Environment Committee was also held to consider the latest design, which incorporates a new landscaped public space for the island site at the centre of the junction.

    These updated plans reflect feedback from around 1000 responses to the consultation, which demonstrated a strong desire for improved public realm in the area, as well as further improvements to provision for pedestrians and cyclists. The Transport Convener has had discussions with residents, businesses and stakeholders, to focus on a pedestrian and cycling-friendly area while also ensuring the junction operates efficiently for the towns public
    transport network.

    We understand the plans are in no way final, the Council and Transport Scotland recognise it is essential to get the balance right for all road users, whether they're on foot, cycling or using public transport. Conversation around this pivotal development will continue, as the Council further refine the design to best suit the needs of the public.

    The next meeting of the Council’s Transport and Environment Committee takes place today, Thursday, 1 February 2018.

    Details of this meeting can be seen on the Council website.
    I hope this information is useful and provides you with some clarity on the position of the
    proposal.

    Yours sincerely

    The McGovernment

    No way final?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  25. unhurt
    Member

    And a mysterious lack of mention of The Private Cars - as if by eliding them we will not notice they've been prioritized?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  26. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    a new landscaped public space for the island site at the centre of the junction

    A new red-hot razorblade-lined bowge in nether hell, just above the place where Satan chews Judas for all eternity.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  27. Morningsider
    Member

    So, the "...updated plans reflect feedback from around 1000 responses to the consultation". In much the same way that my bathroom mirror reflects back someone who looks like George Clooney's better looking brother.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    The revised plans "reflect feedback from around 1000 responses to the consultation" in the same manner that, in centuries past, the shields of Roman legionnaires reflected the arrows and spears hurled at them by warriors from tribes whose land they had been sent to conquer.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Am I right in thinking that no one has ever publicly stated that they actually want a circular three-lane motorway in the east end of central Edinburgh?

    Folk have shrugged and said it's inevitable and they'll do their best to mitigate the horror but no one seems to be willing to say they want it. And yet it is mysteriously inevitable.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  30. Frenchy
    Member

    Anyone know the likely timescales of the gyratory being built?

    And when Leith St is supposed to reopen?

    Posted 6 years ago #

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