CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

The Sustrans proposals for Picardy Place/Leith Street

(864 posts)

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Patrick Geddes pointed out that every economy is a 'leaf economy'. Plants and algae are the basis of all wealth and indeed of life itself.

    But sometimes the leaves have to be destroyed to save the leaves.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    “Plants and algae are the basis of all wealth and indeed of life itself.

    But sometimes the leaves have to be destroyed to save the leaves.”

    Yes, but a lot of problems are due to the fact that some of the leaves (and the things that ate them) died millions of years ago.

    They are currently being consumed as though it’s possible they will last for ever.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  3. McD
    Member

    @frnchy Stuart Hay from Living Streets has done some green man timing videos youtube

    Posted 8 months ago #
  4. Klaxon
    Member

    The finish of Leith St is becoming clear

    It’s a level cycle lane with tactile borders, just like Leith Walk

    The arrangement will *not* cope and will overflow with the pedestrian demand at many times of day, there will be a lot of conflict and complaints from both cyclists and pedestrians. Particularly on theatre nights.

    It barely looks wide enough for one way bike traffic, too. Having 60cm of tactiles narrows the usable space a lot

    Posted 8 months ago #
  5. Arellcat
    Moderator

    They are currently being consumed as though it’s possible they will last for ever.

    Every year, man uses up a million years' worth of fossil fuel creation. That is how addicted we are to convenient energy.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  6. jonty
    Member

    On the plus side, looks like the new slightly larger pavement is about to go in on the corner round to Regents Road. Its outline has been traced onto the road and coned off, at least.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  7. McD
    Member

    @Klaxon Spokes was told that the cycleway would be kerb/height separated except at floating bus-stop/crossings where it would rise to pavement height. Does what you've seen conflict with this?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  8. Klaxon
    Member

    @McD

    Flat and level all the way from the omni centre to Greenside Row, not just at the designated crossings which have additional tactiles.


    Posted 8 months ago #
  9. crowriver
    Member

    Yeah I've been checking this over the past couple of weeks as it develops. Certainly far from ideal, not a Copenhagen or Dutch style design. However overall it is a big improvement on what was there before: the footway was ludicrously narrow opposite John Lewis, with vehicles passing close by at speed heading to Calton Road. From a walking perspective, it's a significant improvement. However the design builds in conflict with cyclists, and is not appropriate for an area with such heavy footfall.

    I said this and a lot more in my objections to the TRO and RSO. I presume they are just ploughing ahead anyway, and the cycle track will be "out of operation" until objections are resolved? Hopefully they will restore bus lanes at least...

    As I've stated previously, the whole Picardy Place/Leith Street design has been a fait accompli since 2009, with just some tinkering at the margins to "take account of feedback" from the "consultation".

    Posted 8 months ago #
  10. Klaxon
    Member

    This layout, as built, will be fantastic if in the future it is mirrored on the downhill side, with conversion to with flow lanes.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  11. McD
    Member

    @Klaxon - that section is all floating bus stop. I wasn't sure whether it was just the crossings to the floater that would be level/at-grade - clearly it's not. The rest of the route should be height and kerb differentiated - apart from the crossings. This should be the standard in future!

    The Picardy Place main island cycleways will be to this standard - but hopefully wider! They originally specified 2.5m "for consistency" but Spokes has asked for wider.

    Yes - it would be great to get segregated cycleway on the downhill side, but more importantly, uphill from Calton Road. Downhill will be messy joining up to the other cycleways and Broughton Street though - inherently in part due to the single-sided cycleways.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    This is a bit narrow and presume wiggly bit is also for slowing riders down, but seems to work.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  15. crowriver
    Member

    “I don’t want anything to be viewed as a deterrent for anyone coming into the city. It may make people think about bringing their cars to the city centre which, from the point of view of improving congestion, can’t be anything but a good thing. But that’s very much the individual’s 
choice."

    A choice which the city is helping to make easier by encouraging developers to build huge car parks.....in the city centre.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. crowriver
    Member

    Further on the parking issue, I was walking in the city centre yesterday and the Sunday parking free-for-all has hit stupendously moronic levels. Cockburn Street completely jammed with parked cars on both sides, meaning other vehicles could not pass. Bonkers!

    Also noted large numbers of tourists being disgorged from Waverley station: it really hasn't got any quieter, even in mid-February. English half term holiday started perchance?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  17. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    I have been tweeting the good Cllr Macinnes about leading the debate on car reduction in the city centre. This is a start - great!

    Posted 8 months ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    But Harts, what is the gyratory to become sans tarffic? A laughing stock, that's what.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  19. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    I think we should judge her post-Picardy. There was too much history and legacy there for her to easily get out of it.

    The more I think about it, I do believe the Council felt they just had to get it built, as the last gasp of the awful tram project and, thereafter, they can focus of the City Centre Transformation with a relatively fresh pair of eyes.

    Call me naive, but that's what I'm thinking.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  20. crowriver
    Member

    More like the current administration's hands were tied by commitments made by the previous administration. Let's not be too generous though: the current Lord Provost was the one who steamrolled the GAM agreement through Council with two days' notice. Effectively the T&E committee has taken the heat for the failures of both planning and economic development arms of the council, and the errors of judgement of one senior councillor in particular.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Harts

    That's very generous of you. Still, we shall indeed see.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    “Call me naive”

    If you insist...

    “I do believe the Council felt they just had to get it built”

    Yes, but I still don’t understand why.

    “There was too much history and legacy there for her to easily get out of it.”

    Clearly, but I believe she should have tried harder - good place to have made her mark and laid her marker.

    “thereafter, they can focus of the City Centre Transformation with a relatively fresh pair of eyes”

    Yes, but.

    CEC acts as though it has two factions -

    ‘Do things the way they have always been done’.

    ‘Turn Edinburgh into an approximation of an advanced European city’.

    Little evidence that the first group is willing to change or the second feels it has the political support for doing much more than the ‘less important stuff’(?)

    The new Lesley is continuing with the ‘we like ActiveTravel, but it has to remain a choice for large numbers of people to drive’.

    Which would be more legitimate if the AT projects were ambitious, numerous and DELIVERED.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  23. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    chdot, indeed. All will become clear in the next 2-3 years. Then we can judge accordingly.

    In the meantime, of course, we all have to keep the pressure up.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    “All will become clear in the next 2-3 years.”

    Possibly true, but sadly same was said 2-3 years ago...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  25. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Quite. Ironically, the push to get the E-W route approved, meant that all the other projects dropped off the radar. Their simply isn't enough staff to deliver AT improvements on legacy streets.

    That's why we need stuff to be built when new designs go in. Picardy is obviously massively disappointing in that regard, but the 'direction of travel', to use that naff phrase, is *reasonably* encouraging.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. chdot
    Admin

    “but the 'direction of travel', to use that naff phrase, is *reasonably* encouraging“

    Tortoise, hare, cheetah*.

    .

    *facilitate business as usual/traffic flow model.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    “Truly investable cities are not only those with the most mature economies but, like Edinburgh, have to demonstrate they can also offer a healthy and attractive place for people to live. It is imperative that Edinburgh’s future growth isn’t constrained by a lack of affordable housing or transport not keeping pace with changing demographics and new technology.” Hill added that every city region in Scotland needs to look at “what it has to offer, and how it can make the most of it”.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/business/edinburgh-named-as-uk-s-top-city-for-inward-investment-1-4692262

    Which could be used to justify just about anything.

    “Transport” could mean ‘better traffic flow’ or a serious attempt to restrain private car use.

    “keeping pace with changing demographics” - younger people buy fewer cars and like using hire bikes??

    Posted 8 months ago #
  29. Frenchy
    Member

    “keeping pace with changing demographics” - younger people buy fewer cars and like using hire bikes??

    Could be. Could also be "There are more old people, and they need to be able to drive everywhere."

    Posted 8 months ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    Very true!

    Like I said -

    “Which could be used to justify just about anything.”

    Posted 8 months ago #

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