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So great words by Adam & Lesley in this article...
City leaders have revealed that a major “shift away from private cars” will transform key thoroughfares in and around its World Heritage Site.
Radical measures are set to be drawn up to make it much safer to walk or cycle around the city centre to encourage a “change in behaviour”.
From link. -
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We believe the key is creating a better quality of public space, enhancing the pedestrian experience and reducing congestion. This project aims to improve conditions for access for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport.”
A council spokeswoman said an official consultation would begin in May.
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Another consultation to have faith in.
@Hankchief
"Geat words", maybe.
Incredibly vague, for sure. In fact, the article says "measures are set to be drawn up" - which suggests it's not just the words that are vague.
I've heard this all before. Every now and then councillors say they'll do something about congestion.
But when the rubber meets the road, they're not willing to inconvenience drivers and, if anything gets done, it's just fiddling around the edges of the problem.
Not only is that not enough to decrease congestion, it's not enough to offset the year-by-year increase in congestion.
But maybe I'm wrong this time? Maybe I'm just cynical?
Best way of finding out would be to ask them specifically which "key thoroughfares" they're talking about.
Maybe they'll give you a specific answer. Or maybe they'll waffle the politicians love to waffle ... when they never meant what they said in the first place.
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Calling all 16-24 year olds!
Join us for a fun #WorldHeritage skills workshop.
Learn about world heritage storytelling, multi-media digital production and traditional building skills such as stonemasonry with our team of experts:
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https://ewh.org.uk/calling-16-24-year-olds-edinburgh-heritage-workshop/
Wonder if it will include traffic management?
decisions which will allow this beautiful city to flourish, not stagnate
Classic Tony Blair speak. Moving forwards, not back. Becoming bronzer, not paler. Richer, not poorer. Ever upwards, not downwards.
Don't worry, the Tories are already opposed to whatever the council has planned. It's a principled opposition, not knee-jerk. They are very concerned* about pollution and quality of life being spoiled by traffic.
https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrnickcook/status/980504893789220864
*not concerned enough to suggest doing anything about it though.
As someone fluent in officialese, allow me to translate into English:
"...high patronage results in several thousand bus movements per day on Princes Street and crowded bus stops across the city"
A major reorganisations of bus routes through the city centre is in the offing.
"I would expect us to look at having fewer private cars and better public transport"
Expect us to look - I am committed to nothing.
"We need to make sure people can still access the city centre, but in a way that maximises space"
We might pedestrianise a small area (bets on parts of George Street).
"We’ve spent a lot of time with Lothian Buses looking at Princes Street, George Street and Queen Street and how their routes across the city centre work"
See above.
"We’re not aiming to eradicate private cars, that would be ridiculous"
Drivers - no need to panic.
"Everybody has to acknowledge that you cannot drive everywhere all the time"
The pedestrianisation may be time limited - like the roaring success that is Rose Street.
"This isn’t about the council deciding what will happen".
Don't blame us.
"This project aims to improve conditions for access for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport".
Aims to improve - no commitment to action
It looks like this is really about the George Street project and facilitating the movement of huge numbers of tourists about the city centre.
Pushed bike up Buchanan street tonight, you never see a vehicle there. But all. Edinburgh's so called pedestrian areas have vehicles all over them.
Coming out of central station the roadway is made of tiles. You can cycle and drive on it but clearly indicating a slow Max of about 10mph. Towards Gordon street, which is a side street off Buchanan St they have bollards. So the whole thing has been thought through properly and is a slight extension of the existing pedestrian zone.
I still took a fair detour to avoid the drummers at the top of Buchanan street, and the crowds
@Morningsider
A major reorganisations of bus routes through the city centre is in the offing.
I'm not really sure where they're going move buses to. Buses pretty much go where people need them.
What will they do? Move buses to backstreets? Move them to less convenient locations?
Is that going to make public transport more attractive?
"This isn’t about the council deciding what will happen".
... No, it's about years of meetings. Years of pretending to take congestion and pollutions seriously, but without having to do anything.
MacInnes has promised "lots of discussion" - we know what that means, we saw it over Roseburn.
A new plan for Edinburgh’s Old and New Towns World Heritage Site was launched today (27th March 2018)
More info from other thread:
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12983&page=31&replies=200#post-262911
GEORGE STREET AND FIRST NEW TOWN (‘GNT’) preliminary design project
Progress update
A project web page has now been set up, where all documents that are relevant to this project can be accessed.
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/firstnewtown
Reports on feedback on design objectives from the workshop with stakeholders in December, and a drop-in event in January will shortly be added to the webpage.
Poor Nick Cook, got himself in a twist:
Spokes and Living Streets initial meeting with City Transformation project on Wednesday. Hoping to get some stakes in the ground.
What are priorities for improving cross-city and intra-city cycling?
The Bridges, Lothian Road, The Mound, George Street, Princes Street, CCWEL, joining them all up, .....
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Charalampos Koundourakis had a positive response, writing on our Facebook page: “There’ll be a lot of growing pains but it might work quite well. Time to get the ole bicycle out.”
Another supportive voice came from Jock Thompson, who wrote: “It’s a small city so its quicker walking in it that driving up Princes Street.”
David Ure blasted: “In that case the cyclists should be paying road tax for this and the car drivers should be paying less road tax! Since my road tax clearly ain’t being used on the roads.”
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A squeeze on cars, greater priority for pedestrians, bikes and public transport - that’s been the mantra of the city authorities for many years. And it’s not just Edinburgh. Around the world, planners are chasing the same goal, of making our cities healthier and more pleasant places to live. We have seen a succession of plans - some more successful than others - aimed at inching Edinburgh slowly towards that goal.
The general principles are “motherhood and apple pie” stuff. Who doesn’t want a healthy lifestyle, pleasant pedestrian zones and efficient public transport? The problems come in trying to deliver the great potential benefits without causing significant downsides. As we have seen in the past, when mucking about with the traffic lay-out in the city centre, it easy to get it wrong and cause complete chaos.
There is an added urgency to the issue in Edinburgh as the city gets more crowded. The resident population is expected to grow to around 600,000 - a 20 per cent increase - within 20 years, with added tourist numbers expected on top. Something has to give.
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What are priorities for improving cross-city and intra-city cycling?
The Bridges, Lothian Road, The Mound, George Street, Princes Street, CCWEL, joining them all up, .....
I'd add Broughton Street to link NEPN to the city centre, and extend "Lothian Road" infra right up through Bruntsfield and Morningside to Fairmilehead, and "The Bridges" to Cameron Toll/Little France/Mortonhall etc. In order for people to benefit from city centre improvements they need to be able to ride to the city centre.
Essentially what's required is segregated paths on arterial routes. By which we mean paths on tarmac (not stuff on pavements) between parking and the pavement.
“Essentially what's required is segregated paths on arterial routes. By which we mean paths on tarmac (not stuff on pavements) between parking and the pavement.”
Only if there’s room for parking...
Be a bit more holistic than just asking for a wish list of improvements on main roads?
I’d hope the project will
* Close the city centre (a box from Melville Dr to Queen St) to cross-town private traffic with designated access and egress points for deliveries
* Establish a flagship fully pedestrianised core in the city centre around Princes and George Streets
* Set a minimum standard of pedestrian and cycle amenity for all main roads going forward
* Put in place comprehensive filtered permeability across the New Town (revisit 1995 plan)
* Use CCTV to enforce from day one any area where a filter must be a bus gate (to prevent police going ‘we can’t enforce this’ again)
* Lay a strip of tarmac down the centre of every New Town cobbled street (that now won’t break up a-la Warrender Pk Rd due to filter removing through traffic)
Once you establish these principals are king then you can look at what roads need changes to make them happen, and what cycle routes they enable
@PS
Are you sure Minto Street is wide enough for bicycles?
Are you sure Minto Street is wide enough for bicycles?
Well, quite. They might need to get out the binoculars to see if they could fit anything in there.
The road that always springs to my mind for these arterial route discussions is Comiston Road/Buckstone Terrace/Pentland Terrace. It's four lanes wide, but a parked car every 150 yards makes the inside lanes unusable, so putting in bike lanes inside a parking bay/lane would not hinder traffic flow in the slightest.
The other thing to factor in is that traffic lanes do not need to be so wide when the speed limit is lower. That should free up some space on the many city streets that are down to 20mph.
Sometimes hard for us to remember but Comiston Road is too steep for many people to cycle. But you're right, it's immense and effectively two-lane.
Thanks for the replies so far. Need to establish scope of the project, but clearly its impact on the wider city needs to be considered.
@McD This is bigger than cycling, TBH. The key thing is to remove as many vehicles from the city centre as possible: large scale pedestrianisation, restrictions on vehicle use, (enforced) restrictions on commercial delivery times. Get that sort of stuff sorted out to create a city centre that works for people on a human scale and the cycling will look after itself (once we get segregated facilities on arterial routes, obvs...)
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A “large vehicle ban” on the Canongate, Lawnmarket, Victoria Street, Cockburn Street, St Mary’s Street, Candlemaker Row, West Port, East Market Street, Jeffrey Street and the Cowgate has been proposed by community leaders.
Soaring tourism numbers, traffic chaos, “third world” roads and pavement conditions, an invasion of illegal advertising boards and “degrading” standards of waste collection have also been cited in a damning dossier submitted to the city council.
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Why only a "large vehicle" ban? I don't see how most of those streets shouldn't be urgently pedestrianised. Victoria Street, Cockburn Street, Cowgate and The Royal Mile would be the first four streets on my pedestrianisation hit list in the city.
I'd start with the Royal Mile (which would essentially sort out Cockburn Street too). Would anywhere else in Europe leave that street open to cars?
think Cowgate is open to allow the high court Judges and officials to park in the court carpark accessed from cowgate. Even in pedestrian streets there would still be delivery lorries sometimes. Dundee centre pedestrianised in the 80s/90s. I recall when did planning at university was considered easier in Dundee as much of the property was still owed by the council there was low car ownership rate, also was pre gentrification so less pushy residents to complain about loss of parking at door. In Dundee in the 90s if lived in the center with no car access you could park in a multi story and get annual ticket. I recall when went to the Netherlands in the 90s to look at planning there at the time Dundee was far better for walking around than Amsterdam or any of the Dutch cities visited. Don’t think Amsterdam is a very good place to walk several lanes of bikes motorcycles and trams. In Dundee vehicles from bikes to delivery have to wait for walkers.
it would be much harder to pedestrianize Edinburgh centre today than Dundee 30 years ago. I would tend to guess permit parking may be the biggest constraint in Edinburgh centre.
According to Anna Herriman of the FNT transformation team, the permit parking isn't so much of a problem (as they see it) because they can convince residents to park "around the corner".
The real 'problem' for the council is pay & display on the likes of George St which is a massive revenue generator - "I mean massive, absolutely massive"
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