CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Liberton Brae/Liberton road/Kirk Brae/Mayfield

(39 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from edinburgh87

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Word reaches me of an informal consultation on this horror junction.

    Worst is always trying to go from Mayfield to Liberton Road as the junction is super steep and you need to be in lane two or face annihilation.

    Any regular users got any cheap but useful suggestions could be discretely injected into feedback?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Frenchy
    Member

    Oooh. I go through this almost every day. I'll try and remember to write down some thoughts. Any rush?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. amir
    Member

    It would be helpful if they allowed left turns for cyclists coupled with some assistance for cyclists making a right turn from Liberton Road into Gilmerton Road.

    Else - a bike lane (solid line) along Mayfield Road to the junction coupled with traffic lights giving cyclists an early start.

    Also improve road surface for those turning right up Liberton Brae (I often go that way then up Orchard head road). Perhaps some lines on the road junction to divide the traffic going straight on going right

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Any rush?

    I dinna think it loon.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Frenchy
    Member

    (I often go that way then up Orchard head road)

    Is this because you're a sadist who thinks Kirk Brae just isn't steep enough, or because it avoids the worst of the traffic on Kirk Brae?

    I dinna think it loon.

    Cheers min, wull try tae myne an dee it seener raither thin later onywy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Also improve road surface for those turning right up Liberton Brae (I often go that way then up Orchard head road). Perhaps some lines on the road junction to divide the traffic going straight on going right

    Exhibit A (from Streetview a year ago):

    https://goo.gl/maps/b5DUtKNxQtN2

    I avoid Mayfield if at all possible; the gradients are not favourable to bicycling. The traffic lanes on Liberton Brae are wider than they need to be; the uphill cycle lane could be much more than it is.

    How would the Scotch-Dutch reconfigure the junction?

    How about a two-way cycle lane continuous along the east side of Liberton Road and Liberton Brae, another one along the northern side of Mayfield, and another one up the north side of Kirk Brae. They would be interconnected, using a crossing between Mayfield and Liberton Road, and a crossing across the foot of Kirk Brae to Blackford Glen Road. They would probably need to be Toucan crossings, in the absence of priority of bikes over cars.

    Edit: I was looking for a Dutch road junction with a similar layout and instead came across a chicane gate for cars, with a cycle bypass!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. unhurt
    Member

    @Frenchy I think @amir's technically a masochist, unless he's forcing someone else to take that route (and enjoying it).

    @Arellcat I cycled through something like that this summer!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Arrelcat

    We could be over budget there. I think we're in red chuckies and light timings territory.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. amir
    Member

    In my defence, Orchardhead Road has a better surface and far less traffic. You also get a break at the top when you turn left (or right) to get back onto the main road. Try it, you'll love it

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. amir
    Member

    There should be more money in this, given the presence of the King's Buildings with its large contingent of cyclists (and equally large contingent of drivers who need to persuaded not to park on back streets).
    There is currently no *good* way south from KB

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. unhurt
    Member

    Try it, you'll love it

    I'm moving you into the "persuasive stealth sadist" category.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I have used Orchardhead Road for speed training (running, speed is the least interesting aspect of bicycling to me). Its profile is quite infernal.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. Frenchy
    Member

    Try it, you'll love it

    Hmm.

    I like cycling up hills. Orchardhead Road is not a hill, it's a cliff. A cliff that looks like a gentle hill from far away, purely to suck people like me in.

    I do find myself going up it occasionally, for reasons which are almost relevant to this thread. If there's a large queue in the left hand lane at Mayfield Road, but no queue in the right hand lane, it's easier to filter in the right hand lane. I then normally get stuck in that lane, and have to turn right.

    As low as my opinion is of Kirk Brae, the first bit of Liberton Brae is worse. Cars parked nose to tail in the bike lane, so you have to take primary, with a long queue of impatient drivers following you until you reach Orchardhead Road.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    I also use this every day, and also choose liberation brae over kirk brae. It's wider and there is less of an issue with close passes. I don't know what good solutions would be bit major issues are caused by:

    - the surface in the middle of the is a mess, not fun when there is a car either side of you...
    - the cars getting into two lanes on mayfield road on approach to the junction often results in, er, 'contested space' between cars and cyclists.
    - the bus lane heading south on liberton brae is supposed to be also be a cycle lane. It's just never enforce. Cars will queue in it in the morning for 100s of metres and regularly just sweep left into it regardless of whether you are already there, in it, on a bike or not. They could start by actually just enforcing the bus lane, or getting rid of it so that cyclists KNOW that cars can (and should) use it to. Right now it's a kind of sadistic gambling apparatus.
    - cars frequently parked in the bike lane on mayfield road past about 9am.

    Mayfield road and liberton brae are really wide, there is plenty of space for decent cycle provision. I have also written to the university travel people and said they should be pushing for better facilities for accessing KB from this direction (e.g. from easter bush).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    and as for all this freedom, i blame autocorrect

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    oh, and one other thing.

    there is a traffic island on mayfield road right opposite max born crescent. It's a pinch point where you often get close passes. Unfortunately it's right where you need to be cycle one handedly if you are signalling to turn left into max born crescent. it needs to be relocated away from the junction.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Lezzles
    Member

    I second the issue of Kings Buildings. Actually I work in the Bush Estate and there is a lot of cross over of staff between the Bush and Kings Buildings.

    Personally I avoid this cycle route as much as possible. Its ok heading into town but coming back is utterly horrid.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    you may want to ask KB-bug@mlist.is.ed.ac.uk...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    All grist to the mill, fellas. I shall digest and transmit once Frenchy has both cogitated and spake.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. MediumDave
    Member

    @glasgow_megasnake

    Ah, the traffic island. At the time of the KB<->meadows route consultation I queried the installation of a similar island at the Gate 1 entrance with one of the designers. The reasoning I was given for installing an island there was to protect those turning right from West Mains road into the other end of Max Born Crescent. Example given of where this was working "successfully" was Gate 4.

    Protestations that while the islands may be nice for right- turning cyclists they are hazards for cyclists going past in either direction were batted away with jargonistic reference to "envelopes". Possibly kinetic ones (but I wouldn't rule out brown).

    I think road engineers also tend to use islands as quick and dirty pedestrian crossings rather than putting proper ones in.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I will not use 'kinetic envelope' in any feedback. Just won't.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    i came off my bike at gate 4 in february this year because of that traffic island (and the massive effing potholes just inside gate 4) and I still can't run more than 10 km week without pain. I used to do 20+ in one go. i was just trying to get off of mayfield road ASAP before the transit that was tailgating me on approach to the island squeezed past. So I think its a genuine hazard.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. DrAfternoon
    Member

    A less common route, but the traffic light out of Blackford Glen Road doesn't seem to register bikes at all. I've waited hopelessly for several light cycles, trying to get to Kirk Brae or Liberton Brae.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. Frenchy
    Member

    Took Orchardhead Road on the way home. Think I had an asthma attack at the top. I don't even have asthma.

    Found myself being overtaken by drivers on either side going through the junction as well, which is never fun.

    Much as we're complaining about conditions for cycling at this junction, the situation for pedestrians is pretty dire too. Only two of the five roads that meet there have pedestrian signals (Liberton Road and Liberton Brae).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. amir
    Member

    @Frenchy come on, it's more or less flat (and I do get asthma)

    I agree about the scaryness about turning right from Mayfield Road up Liberton Brae. But it often does have a much shorter queue.

    Mostly I go home via the Innocent to avoid all this anyway.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    Various unsorted thoughts:

    Add pedestrian crossings to Kirk Brae, Blackford Glen Road and Mayfield Road.

    Extend ASL on Mayfield Road ~3m forward, so that cyclists start on the flat. Advanced green lights for cyclists.

    Painted ("car", not cycle) lanes through the junction. A cycle lane from Liberton Brae to Mayfield Road should be considered.

    Allow left turns for cyclists from Kirk Brae and Mayfield Road.

    Single yellow lines on Mayfield Road should apply till at least 9:30am (currently 9:15am).

    Braefoot Terrace should have double yellow lines, single yellow kerb flashes. No loading should apply till at least 9:30am.

    Liberton Brae should have double yellow lines and single yellow kerb flashes northbound, at least as far as Alnwickhill Road. Southbound, there should be at least single yellow lines and kerb flashes - ideally double yellows.

    I'm not sure what I'd do with that traffic island on Mayfield Road. Probably get rid of it. It can't move any further north, because of the junction, and if it's moved far enough south to fix the problem for people turning into KB, it's not going to be on the desire line for pedestrians crossing the road. It creates a nasty pinch point for southbound cyclists too, regardless of its position. A proper pedestrian crossing could be the answer?

    Currently, if you are only able to filter to the end of the southbound bike lane on Mayfield Road, you almost certainly don't get through the junction at the next green light. The bike lane should continue past the pub, at least.

    Ban motorised traffic going from Mayfield Road to Kirk Brae? Too radical?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Nice work folks. I've distilled the feedback and sent it in.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    another close pass at the west mains road traffic island. pedestrians on the island, me indicating left, car sails through the middle.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    I was just wondering (politely, no nagging!) if anything ever came of this informal consultation?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @glasgow megasnake

    It was a consultation of the community council by the council. I would imagine that any actual changes would be preceded by council consultation.

    I'd also not hold my breath waiting for any serious cycling infrastructure anywhere between the bypass and the Meadows.

    Posted 11 months ago #

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