CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Edinburgh question - where's my Radio 4 gone?

(56 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by kaputnik
  • Latest reply from Cyclingmollie

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12

  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I am most distressed. "Kingdom FM", some tinpot local radio station playing "popular" music, appears to have commandeered the space on the dial I normally reserve for Radio 4. Despite all the dial tweaking, aerial swinging and climbing onto parts of the kitchen furniture I can manage, I just can't get rid of this abomination - my radio doesn't do Long Wave so I can't even get it on that.

    Has anyone else noticed any similar noise pollution on their wireless sets? Could it be something to do with atmospheric conditions?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "Has anyone else noticed any similar noise pollution on their wireless sets?"

    Yes, but a slight retune solved the problem.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. cb
    Member

    "Kingdom FM, 95.2 and 96.1"

    Greedy.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. PS
    Member

    It does that occasionally on my radio - every so often I'll turn the radio on and, although it was tuned to R4 when I switched it off, I suddenly get assailed by talk of traffic conditions in "The Kingdom". After a brief panic that I've woken up in some cheap pulp fantasy fiction world a quick tweak of the tuner gets me back to civilisation...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. Min
    Member

    I have never had that but having just switched on the reception is really bad. I suppose I could listen to Westminster Hour online but it keeps cutting out.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I've had to cancel bread making as I can't face kneading with anything else available

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. splitshift
    Member

    As I travel about in my truck I listen to the radio,kingdom does come very close to R4, but never interferes with it, not wishing to sound like am teaching you to suck eggs, but, have you changed the settings on your tuning scales/search criterium ?
    Radio 4 is usually quite straghtforward,but obviously weather CAN make a difference. Heading south west I can pick up radio ulster much easier in fine weather than foul. Not that I want to but the thing is usually set to DX, local first.After saying that,there are a couple of local "hot"spots where I loose everything, the radio just goes into A9 mode, ie it will search from lowest to highest and aquire nothing. only lasts about 100yards though, unlike the A9, its quiet for miles, thank goodness for CD player and the Prodigy !

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Yep, really bad Radio 4 reception here all day. What kinda bread you making kaputnik?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. wee folding bike
    Member

    UK subs are supposed to listen for Radio 4 and if they can't find it they unleash hell because the UK isn't there anymore.

    Well... except Quote, Unquote and whatever they broadcast late on Sunday evening. We could get by without that.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It's not an advanced radio - metre of wire for an antennae and just a big olde-fashioned dial on the front (it's reasonably new though, it's just going for the "wireless" sort of look) I sometimes have to tweak the dial or reposition the antennae from the horizontal to the vertical, but I've never been able to "not find" Radio 4. It's just like it's not there and all I can get is the Black Eyed Peas or something similarly awful.

    I have some Malted Brown flour, so it was going to be a couple of loaves. My tins do about a 500g loaf.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. wee folding bike
    Member

    You could use iPlayer and get the Radio 4 live stream. I use that in the morning during my porridge because there isn't a real radio downstairs.

    Don't set your watch from it though.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    "Don't set your watch from it though"

    Or from DB

    Or radio through the telly

    Why???

    Well I know about 'packets' that whizz around the internet in different directions and re-splice themselves in your computer.

    But digital broadcast???

    And 'they' want 'us' to go digital.

    Which time do ScotRail trains run to? (Silly question...)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Don't set your watch from it though.

    Yes I've noticed this when I have (analogue) R4 on in the kitchen and (iplayer) R4 on in the living room. It's OK when I go from the kitchen to the living room, as by the time I walk down the hall I arrive at exactly the same point in the broadcast that I left off at. However going in the other direction I end up missing a good 5 or 6 seconds out.

    Yet more proof, as if it was needed, of that space-time-continuum-absolute-zero phenomenon that's been pointed out on a couple of other threads.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    I'm a DAB fan. We couldn't get any 'normal' broadcasts at all in the Leith flat, so all our radios/stereo digital. Certainly avoids 'tuning' problems.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. Smudge
    Member

    Without looking up the respective transmitter details this is a guess:
    My guess is the Kingdom FM transmitter is closer to you than the Radio4 one and the current snow showers are attenuating the signal to you, (yesterday I was listening to American stations on almost all the ham bands I have antennae here for, from 80m through to even 10m! Today in the snow I'm barely even hearing anyone on 20m..).
    The quick and dirty fix to try is to get some wire, any sort will do, bare an end and attach it to your radio antenna and trail the free end out of a convenient window. As long as the radio can handle the stronger signals (likely) then you should get radio 4 back and the breadmaking can restart ;-)

    Good luck!
    S

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. steveo
    Member

    "Or radio through the telly

    Why???

    Well I know about 'packets' that whizz around the internet in different directions and re-splice themselves in your computer.

    But digital broadcast???"

    Digital broadasts are subject to the same prep work as internet streams. Encoded, compressed and sent via ip, the difference is the dab signal is then broadcast via the TV/radio networks where they then have to be decompressed and decoded exactly the same as an internet stream thus the same lag.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. Smudge
    Member

    Don't start me on the digital hype :-<
    (caution, rant on)
    The only reasons "they" want us to go digital are 1. lower bandwidth so they can sell more spectrum space, 2. Lower tx power required so cheaper, 3. The potential for easy encryption and therefore charging if required at some point in the future.
    The "better quality" is a total red herring and I get quite upset at people lying and selling "digital" antennae :-<< THERE IS NO SUCH THING!! grrrr antennae are tuned to frequency not mode!!!
    (rant off)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    "decompressed and decoded exactly the same as an internet stream thus the same lag"

    OK, but why does this take a noticable number of seconds?

    Speed of light distance to the Moon is 1.3 seconds.

    I know it's not the same, but an analogue signal still has to be 'decoded' by a radio receiver.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. SRD
    Moderator

    Quite agree that I don't get the point to digital switchover -- What are today's kids to do w/out chance to make a crystal radio set???? But given our experience, better to have digital than no radio 4!

    Have tried to explain digital radio to family in Canada including the engineer - who specializes in radio/microwave communications technology - and failed. Not the concept obviously, but why it is so prevalent here, but not elsewhere.

    I do like the clock though - since it gets the signal automatically. Nice not to have to worry about setting the clock right!!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "Nice not to have to worry about setting the clock right!!"

    But is it right...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    "but why it is so prevalent here, but not elsewhere"

    Perhaps the bandwidth factor mentioned above.

    Though for many years UK has not had 'enough' - which seems to be less of a problem elsewhere(?)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. Smudge
    Member

    Getting OT sorry, but hopefully still interesting..

    @SRD
    The crowded radio spectrum on our small island and financial imperatives as listed above should explain all to your engineering friends :-/

    As to the crystal sets, there should still be some foreign and amatuer stations to listen to, maybe we'll just need to tune to a slightly different part of the band.
    On the plus side the shortwave bands are still fairly populous and fascinating to kids with the right prompting, and most kids LOVE playing with morse code with a little explanation (and NO dots and dashes lol). Plenty radio fun still to be had, and if children enjoy it it's never been easier to get a basic amatuer licence (I've known 12 year olds easily pass the foundation licence) :)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. steveo
    Member

    OK, but why does this take a noticable number of seconds?

    The initial compression takes time, sending a signal through the internet is still slower than LS due to lag introduced by switches etc.

    When you come to decode the signal its complicated by the fact you'll have several "channels" in one frequency, on freeview there is something like 8 channels on the BBC's mux (multiplex??) or frequency so the channel you want has to be separated (decoded) from the other channels on the same mux then decompressed and played i expect DAB has many more channels per mux.

    All of these things take a few hundreds of milliseconds and soon add up to your pips being out...

    Decoding an analogue signal is very simple since the encoding is just very slight modulation of either the frequency or the strength of the signal, this is then amplified and sent to speaker.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    @steveo

    Thanks

    It's 'almost' funny that over the last couple of centuries time has been getting more 'accurate'. The railways stopped 'local time'. There are ultra accurate atomic clocks, Big Ben, BBC pips etc.

    And now...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    @Smudge

    "Getting OT"

    Hardly!

    "sorry"

    No need

    "but hopefully still interesting.."

    Yes

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @Smudge - thanks, that would make sense. From where I am it's relatively straight LOS to Purin Hill where I see Kingdom FM transmits from. It would therefore make sense that it is interfering with my R4 signals from Black Hill out west in deepest, darkest Lanarkshire.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  27. steveo
    Member

    "The railways stopped 'local time'. There are ultra accurate atomic clocks, Big Ben, BBC pips etc.

    And now... "

    My phone can pick up the time from a dozen ultra accurate atomic clocks in orbit. I've a ntp server on my home network which keeps all the computers in my house synced with utc, i believe utc takes account of lag so is within a high degree of accuracy the same as any given atomic clock.

    Since i gave up wearing a wrist watch i never have to worry about adjusting clocks, all of the time pieces in my house do it them selves... well except the cooker, note to self install ethernet to cooker....

    I wonder if they'll continue broadcasting the pips on the bbc after the digital switch over since you'd be more accurate setting your time by the clock on the dab than by the broadcast.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    "you'd be more accurate setting your time by the clock on the dab than by the broadcast"

    AH is that so?

    Had assumed that dab time was equally 'suspect'

    My computer and phone never say the same time, so it's always hard to know! (Not that a few seconds make that much difference!)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  29. SRD
    Moderator

    My crystal radio only ever picked up VOCM.....and occasional really random shortwave stuff. Engineer brother had lots of shortwave sets scavenged from other people's rubbish, but I never really got into it myself. But I did keep the crystal set.

    correction - it was chvo and (i think) a christian station. neither likely to inspire excitement in kids!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    atomic clock

    whenever I hear / read that phrase, I always picture a giant alarm clock (complete with bells on the top) plugged into a nuclear reactor by some sort of Wyle. E. Coyote electrical engineering

    Posted 13 years ago #

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