CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Going car-free

(53 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by adamthekiwi
  • Latest reply from Arellcat

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  1. adamthekiwi
    Member

    Well, we've done it - the Mini was sold last week and so we're now a 0-car and 7-bike family. It had been increasingly marginalised for some time in terms of transport decisions, being used primarily (and slightly ironically) for enabling bike-riding: essentially taking bikes to places that trains don't reach. It will be replaced with the occasional "Enterprise Car Club" van hire to transport us and bikes to Glentress and hire-cars/vans for further afield where public transport is not a viable option.

    We've made some more room in the colonies for folk to park increasingly ridiculous faux-by-fours (as Viz once asked: "Primary school up a f***ing mountain?") half on the pavement...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. the canuck
    Member

    woohoo!
    i don't have a car, partner does. trying to get him back into the cycle-to-work habit, but his hill aversion means the commute is so far as to be unpractical for him.

    we've come to the realisation that traffic in this city is so bad we may as well walk or take a bus--the bus is no faster, but it's more relaxed. and parking is impossible, so we gave up on driving to friend's houses too.

    it does mean more planning, but overall, the car is more of an illusion of convenience most of the time.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. neddie
    Member

    "Good on ya", Adam, as the Kiwis would say

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. Rosie
    Member

    Great. I used to borrow a friend's car now & then & would find it a total pain - always having to find somewhere to park it. It's like having a giant expensive pet - a rhinoceros, say. Why would anyone want to encumber themselves with such a big useless thing?

    Will you be calculating savings?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. adamthekiwi
    Member

    the canuck - you're right. I've recently seriously increased the amount of walking I do, and I can get to almost anywhere I want faster on foot than by any means other than bike (but without the requirement to find a place to lock it up).

    nedd1i_h - actually, I think most of my countryfolk would say "No car, mate? Are you mad?". NZ is probably wedded to car culture as much as the US...

    Rosie - no; honestly, can't be @rsed. We're off to NZ in 6 months, and the bulk of spending on the Mini was unexpected repair bills, so not sure I could generate meaningful information.

    "[...]always having to find somewhere to park it" - you could always do what most drivers do and just stop wherever takes your fancy. I believe all modern cars come equipped with the dual flashing "Stop where the **** I like" lights...?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. gembo
    Member

    Good on ya, Adam the kiwi.

    I think as well as the bad driving the actual parking of Edinburgh drivers is woeful, but hey, that's just my opinion man.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. Tulyar
    Member

    Well I'm now at 41 years without owning a car full time - I did inherit my late dad's car briefly, but once the basic clearing up was completed (house cleared, and rented out) I couldn't wait to get rid of it.

    Most serious no-car folk slide gradually in to Brompton ownership, and I'm looking at how we might be able to get a Brompton Hire location in Edinburgh and/or Glasgow. The unit at Kings Cross is handy for folk heading down to London BUT it is running at a fragile level of demand with over 4 bikes on hire for each locker, which means that it only takes 25% of the bikes (plus any 'visitors') being returned to Kings Cross to fill up all the lockers, or 25% to be hired in close succession, to deliver a problem of all filled or all empty. However you can book a bike 24 hr in advance on line or from a smartphone. Casual (£1/year subscription) Frequent (£25/year) and hire rates are £6.50 or £3.50/day for as long as you want to keep the bike - many hire for a week or more to fit work/commuting pattern. Some Car clubs offer deals of a joint membership (car plus bike) and some employers provide the membership as a staff benefit.

    It would be interesting to have a quick straw poll from CCE members on whether they might use a Brompton or City bike hire machine as part of their transport choice portfolio, especially if the Ridacard/Lothian Bus/Tram phone app might be integrated into a deal for car club, and bike hire through a single account.

    At a rough guess a typical decent car (according to RAC figures) will cost £5000-£6000/year to finance/insure/fill with fuel etc, and the alternative might be 2x ridacards plus the occasional taxi/hired car and a few train trips, which should mean £2000-£3000/year additional disposable income, available.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. crowriver
    Member

    I've been car-free since my late teens (used to drive an old Hillman Hunter estate, great car but way too powerful an engine for a young man idiot to drive - nearly killed myself/passengers on several occasions).

    Our family has been car-free from the outset. We did used to keep a City Car Club membership operational but as we used the vehicles incredibly rarely we let it lapse eight years ago. Rest of family are fairly regular bus users, I'm a very occasional one but a very regular train commuter. We all walk a lot.

    I find we can transport most things by bike or public transport. Anything else gets delivered.

    The only thing it would be nice to have a car for is the odd leisure trip, but it's perfectly possible to use the train in this country, especially living in central(ish) Edinburgh.

    I own a silly number of bikes, but am gradually downsizing the stable. Folding bikes and tandems are part of the mix: latter quite handy with medium-sized children. Smaller ones can ride a tagalong for shorter journeys.

    All the best with car-free living. It's really not as hard as many folk seem to think.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. fimm
    Member

    Mr Fimm and I have been car-free for most of the past decade. Busses and bikes do for around town; we do make reasonable use of City Car Club and normal commercial hire for races and weekends away.
    One nice aspect of doing car ownership in this way is that when money was a little bit tight a few years ago we could simply say "well we won't do that race/weekend away and then we won't have to hire a car" and didn't have the overhead of having an unused car sitting around costing us money.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. neddie
    Member

    an old Hillman Hunter estate, great car but way too powerful an engine

    That must have been the 1725cc, twin carb, 107bhp GLS?

    We had the 1500cc Deluxe and that was not overpowered by any stretch of the imagination

    Max comfortable speed about 55mph. Absolute max screaming-engine speed 78mph.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    Yes, it was 1725cc. The acceleration was incredible for such a modest looking, large car. I do remember getting it up to nearly 90mph with relative ease.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. ARobComp
    Member

    Great to hear about people going car free. Despite having just sprogged and based on where we live I think we're not far off from being able to do the same. The wife is a bit further off from this however so might be a while. I'm convincing her slowly! Thankfully our Yaris is next to free it's so cheap and reliable **touch wood**.

    Plus you can fit a ridiculous amount into that car with the seats down. However with seats up and baby installed - you can fit almost nothing apart from the pram...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    My (suburban) dad likes to complain that it takes him "only 25 minutes" to drive to our flat (on edge of city centre tenementland), but takes 10-15 minutes to find a space. He clearly differentiates that time taken to park and walk to our flat as not part of his journey time.

    In the same way, it takes me 25 minutes to get a 26 bus to their house, but 10 minutes to walk up the hill from the bus stop.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. Klaxon
    Member

    Parking science is a weird thing

    On ADI advice got into the habit I got into the habit of parking in the middle or rear of all car parks

    Your walk is nominally longer but you don’t circulate for ages and there’s less turnover so less risk of door dings to your vehicle

    I’d suggest to your dad to head straight to the large commercial car park by you, never problem

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @Klaxon yes that's what he generally does now as they've yet to set up a CCTV system like the one at Hermiston Gait which tracks anyone parking and walking out of the grounds of the shopping park and sends you an £80 bill for the privilege.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. jonty
    Member

    I'm not sure it tracks you walking out the grounds, just parking there for more than X hours, surely? The latter is much easier technically and legally, I think.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. kaputnik
    Moderator

    No, my folks got a ticket for parking there (without going to the shops) and taking the tram, effectively using it as a park and ride. They were sent a nice picture of their car entering the car park and also them leaving the boundary of the shopping park. There are signs at all exit points stating "You may not leave site and leave your vehicle in situ. Hermiston Gait Car Park is NOT a Park & Ride facility."

    A very expensive way to avoid a 1 mile walk (or a 300m walk to a bus stop).

    I'm not sure if this is automated tracking per se, or if they look for likely looking people leaving the site and track them back to see if they got out of a car in the car park.

    I assume given the car parks proximity to employment at Edinburgh Park / South Gyle and also the train and tram that it's worth them installing such technology to prevent use as an office overspill / park and ride.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. jonty
    Member

    Wow! Serious effort there.

    I've always wondered why Edinburgh Park isn't a park and ride, to be honest. Seems perfect - end of a major motorway, regular 10 minute train ride into town, tram and bus connections too.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Indeed. A better design for Edinburgh would be at every major entry point to have a Park & Ride where it costs 0 to park if you pay the bus/tram fare into town and to go any further you have to go through a congestion charge gate which is significantly more expensive than going via the P&R.

    They kind of already have most of the P&Rs in place in a ring around the city, Hermiston Gait is the missing for people who can't be bothered to go into Riccarton

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I once got a parking ticket from one of those parking management companies, at a Morrison’s in Granton I think. The sent a ‘notice’ of some description with a wee picture enclosed to ‘prove’ I was there.

    I just sent it back and told them I wasn’t driving the car at the time. They asked who was driving the car at the time, and I told them I couldn’t remember (no burden in civil law to provide information).

    Never heard from them again.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. Klaxon
    Member

    Feel at this point I should point out the thread drift from car free to car ownership

    I probably spend far more on food now than I did with the car as I'm buying little and often from small stores.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. ih
    Member

    "I probably spend far more on food now than I did with the car as I'm buying little and often from small stores."

    Chances are you're actually saving money by not buying more than you need. Also saving waste disposal services. What's not to like?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. neddie
    Member

    Today's rubbish car-free-ness (well Saturday's actually)

    We were offered a lift for youngest child to get to Ratho climbing arena for a birthday party, which we reluctantly accepted because we're all a bit tired from the end of term... and reasons...

    In the past, we've been reluctant to accept lifts for fear of normalising car use (especially for transporting children to car-based locations), and making the people with cars feel like they're doing the world a favour... well guess what?

    Said lift provider turned round to our child to tell them "isn't it so great we have a big SUV to take everyone? We want to avoid too many people bringing cars". This was followed later by a message to say, "the 'bus' is leaving [to go home]", like actually justifying their SUV use and ownership as some sort of 'public transport'!?

    Note also, the party had been arranged at a location that almost necessitates car use, something that wouldn't have happened in the past, and organising parties locally and accessibly is something we need to return to.

    This is the exact reason, as a car-free family, we won't accept lifts from people any more - it basically undoes everything we stand for

    Posted 1 year ago #

  24. LaidBack
    Member

    @neddie - That's always a dilemma. Ratho isn't of course 'that easy' even with accelerated e-cargo bike. In fact @algo took an Urban Arrow there last year just to show how disconnected it was. Think access ramp is now in from canal but still around 45 mins on a manual bike versus 1 hour to 1.5 hours on public transport from LB shop. (Yes our world class PT averages around 7mph for this journey!).
    Car can do in 35 mins which is probably same as an e-cargo.
    Transport though is social scene for children and of course it's relentlessly normalised. The SUV argument is popular with active families too. In reality a Berlingo can carry more than most of the chunkier monsters but fuel and insurance costs are still affordable for some.
    When our daughter was at Royal Mile Primary most of her friends didn't have access to a family car. At Gillespies that changed and she always left her bike at Margiottas as she was embarrassed to be seen on it :-(. Was a Dawes Duchess too with a chain that kept shipping for no reason - eventually got stolen! Often she took the 23 bus as a 'social' if she had time.
    She still doesn't drive - may learn but using a bike again now.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  25. Baldcyclist
    Member

    We certainly wouldn't use a car for work, train far better.but would miss out on a lot at the weekend with no car.
    Saturday, boy has Judo in Dunfermline, the a birthday party at Muddy boots (near Glenrothes) in the afternoon.
    Sunday:Day walking the Ochils with the boy. We tend to walk locally Fife hills or Clackmannanshire, sometimes Pentlands, all within 45 mins by car. West Lomond although still in Fife 3.5 hours away by bus on a Sunday.

    That said we did manage to do most of the Fife Coastal path by bus, but beyond Crail we got to 3hr plus journeys which would have made for very long days.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  26. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Also re climbing place, it's not disconnected say from Broxburn or Livingston, it's not a solely 'Edinburgh' resource, I'm sure the more central position of it is deliberate.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  27. Greenroofer
    Member

    @laidback - +1 for the Berlingo. We have a 14-plate one that is brilliant. Carries five in comfort (7-seater version available). Rear seats can come out to create a van. Sliding rear doors don't bash other cars in the car park. Will take a whole adult bike (or a washing machine) as-is. Easy-clean interior. A bit crude (it is a van with windows, after all). Hugely practical. Love it.

    Only thing is that, although a perfectly serviceable vehicle that we'd planned to keep for several more years, the implementation of the LEZ puts its future in doubt (it's a non-compliant Euro 5 diesel). Intense debate now raging at Greenroofer Towers as to whether it's better to replace it or retain it.

    I know the best thing from an GHG perspective is to drive less in the car you already own, but I'm less clear what to do about the other kinds of pollution it generates.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    “I'm sure the more central position of it is deliberate.”

    In simple terms, ‘it was there’ - ‘waste land’.

    No idea how much the original people with a plan considered the location - though proximity to motorways must have been obvious.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  29. neddie
    Member

    One of the most surprising aspects of becoming car-free is the number of people who, as soon as they get wind you’re car-free, then go on, unprompted, to justify their own car use!

    Why is that? Guilt?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  30. neddie
    Member

    And we actually went to the Lomond hills the weekend before last - it took 2hrs by bus, each way. So don’t believe those who exaggerate public transport times by taking Sunday corner cases

    Posted 1 year ago #

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