I hope they're updating the report to take into account the need for bus drivers to consider where bike lanes are before opening the doors for passengers. I've heard reports of buses on Leith Walk pulling up behind another bus occupying the stop and opening their doors, leading to passengers spilling out onto the segregated cycle path (ie, where it's near the kerb before it goes round the back of the bus stop). One of the first passengers off was a child in a pushchair blindly pushed into the path of a cyclist who thankfully was alert enough to grab their brakes...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
"Lothian Bus drivers sent on training course to better understand cyclists"
(49 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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Was chatting to a LB driver yesterday while on a training course (unrelated to either bus driving or cycle riding). He was telling me the one main cycling-related thing that LB drivers rant about back at "the depot" was the West Maitland Street stretch heading west, which bicycles are not allowed to go on, but buses are. I had to admit I'd never been 100% sure that bicycles are not allowed on it, but I have almost always avoided it and gone the Diane's Pool Hall route instead when heading back to Corstorphine as I suspected we were not.
Can't deny that I did get the impression that LB drivers "tolerate" cyclists more than I'd realised... I thought they had more respect but alas it seems it's possibly all just a facade (possibly only in my mind).
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Kenny - yeah, cycling west on that bit of West Maitland Street's definitely banned. This annoys me as I think it's safer than the detour, but the council does not agree.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“I did get the impression that LB drivers "tolerate" cyclists more than I'd realised”
Yeah, but the problem is the ones that don’t.
(Other bus company’s drivers are definitely not as good!)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Good example of one that didn't, this morning at Potterrow, an old lady making steady progress on a Brompton up the slope through the roadworks, with a number 2 bus right on her back wheel, revving and clearly very impatient to overtake. Have tweeted LB.
Posted 6 years ago # -
An interesting one, I assume like me most cyclists would just follow the green tarmac.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The few times I find myself westbound on West Maitland Street, I get off and push the bike to Haymarket junction, and remount by the station. The official route has an annoying and anxiety provoking mid-carriageway cycle lane, and the green tarmac means you have to cycle in close proximity to the tram lines - neither option is an attractive prospect.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Lately, I feel I have noticed a marked change in the driving style of Lothian Buses drivers. If I were to think back a year or so, I could not have been happier with the way they drove - they were respectful of cyclists 99% of the time (we all have a bad day, after all), they would wait behind if close to a bus stop rather than cutting you off, they would pass with plenty of room etc.
It seems to have changed. Don't get me wrong, it's still approximately 857 times better than First Bus, but the best way I can describe it is that the bus drivers are no longer my friend, and have degraded to what I'd describe as "just another driver who finds cyclists irritating".
My pondering has left me wondering why. I wonder if there are now _so many_ cyclists these days, they are getting very frustrated? There's certainly a lot more slower cyclists, I guess due to there now being enough of a critical mass of cyclists that more people feel confident enough to give it a try, and of course they will be slower or less experienced, and goodness knows how we're not allowed to hold up the people who own the roads, the drivers.
Anyway, ramble over. Just thought I'd ask if anyone else had similar thoughts.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Maybe they're more stressed with the festival crowds and now the new students. I suspect any tonal change you spot over such a short period must be seasonal or you-not-them.
Are cyclist numbers really increasing? I worry that's just a self-congratulatory greenwash noise the council makes. Had a quick google - the limited council/spokes data suggests no change since 2000, I think. Maybe there's other data that shows a big uplift beyond those countpoints.
https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-counts/area.php?region=Scotland&la=City+of+Edinburgh
http://www.spokes.org.uk/documents/papers-documents/spokes-traffic-counts/
Posted 6 years ago # -
"Are cyclist numbers really increasing? "
The Spokes counts seem to show there are more cyclists - at least at peak travel times - but that *that* many more over the past 12 years. Basically, there were quite a few anyway...
That tallies with my own anecdata, which feels to me like the streets are a bit busier with cyclists, but I think calling it "critical mass" is maybe a tad hyperbolic.
Posted 6 years ago # -
In terms of higher numbers of cyclists, this is based on the number I see commuting on a daily basis. Especially on the NEPN, it feels like there are double the cyclists to a year or two ago, and the same when getting to traffic lights.
I’ll continue to monitor the bus situation. Good shout re: students and festival; maybe that has clouded things.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@kenny, I sent your comment to a friend in LB at and they asked that any examples be sent to the company as they take it very seriously, as it helps ensure that drivers are getting the correct training, particularly as they are aware that the number of cyclist and vehicle numbers are increasing.
I agree that LB are miles better than Firstbus.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Kenny, it may well be that numbers on the NEPN are up now that folk actually know it's there: it used to be almost a secret.....however the Spokes count and the DoT counts together show a much more modest increase. In particular, the DoT counts show an increase of maybe 17% over 17 years. That's certainly significant, but given the time period involved shows a gentle evolution rather than a sudden mass of riders taking the streets by storm. The DoT counts also seem to show a decrease in cyclist numbers on the roads since a high in 2013, which correlates with reports elsewhere of an increase in people driving the past few years: maybe commuters switching back to cars? Or it could just be lack of monitoring on Leith Street while it was closed...
It will be interesting to see what impact the bike hire scheme makes: this could well lead to a critical mass effect on the roads, especially in the high tourist season.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@condor - will do. Tbh though it is not dangerous driving, more just “did you really need to overtake to then immediately stop at the bus stop and force me out of the bus lane” type thing. Just feel it didn’t used to happen. But will report if danger ensues.
@crowriver - interesting. NEPN really seems super busy some days, but maybe I am exaggerating it in my head. I certainly don’t feel isolated in the roads as I did say 8 years ago, but maybe I’m just more confident now?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Lothian bus drivers are occupying the ASL almost every day I arrive at the northbound George IV Bridge junction with the Royal Mile. Given the scaffolding at the hotel on the corner, filtering is on the outside and sometimes it's almost impossible to get back inside the traffic island/light post given the <rule 2>'s positioning (which may be deliberate). No fewer than 5 cyclists had to take up suboptimal/borderline dangerous positions because of one particularly egregious example today. I've complained to LB today but dubious that will sort it. May refit camera to get some footage.
Posted 2 years ago # -
If you give EXACT times they OUGHT to be willing/able to look at on-board cameras’ recordings.
You can of course request the footage…
Posted 2 years ago # -
There were several LB buses in the queue of traffic so I suspect it would be difficult to identify the correct one from time alone without the reg.
Given it has happened many times, I doubt it's down to one rogue driver and more a reversion to poor LB driving behaviours. If I make myself enough of a nuisance to them along with footage, perhaps something will change.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Good
They will probably know what order the buses were in at the lights.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Should be fairly simple, no? Look at the onboard camera from each bus until they find the one with no other bus in front of it...
Posted 2 years ago #
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