We all make judgements, I'm sure, in fact we can hardly avoid it. I just thought it sounded helpful to get a bit of supportive evidence before acting on them in a way that impinges on someone else.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
NEPN & stolen bikes
(57 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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@stiltskin, I'm still not seeing any reference to clipless pedals in the original post. Neither do I see said reference in the post where you enquire "Why would you ride a £3 grand road bike in a pair of trainers?" As far as I can see, Greenroofer was the first to mention clipless pedals, yesterday.
"See Davecykl's post"
Davecykl may be comfortable with being stopped by some random security guard or vigilante type. I asked how you would feel, not Davecykl.
"I think your principles are getting in the way of a reasoned argument."
Similarly it would appear your preconceptions and assumptions are hindering reasoned argument.
@Cyclingmollie, "Berghaus Mera Peak jacket"
Yes, see also the now ubiquitous North Face garments etc. which are mostly used for meandering to the shops rather than scaling snow capped peaks.
Whether legitimately acquired or otherwise, I've observed one notable trend of trainer, hoodie and (often) baseball cap clad young men on bikes is to be sat atop a high end MTB. Very possibly has never seen a mountain, or even a muddy track. Whether this form of transportation is appropriate for Edinburgh streets (carriageway or footway) could be debated with points for and against.
Is it possible that similarly "inappropriate" road bikes are becoming a trend among certain young men? In reality I have no idea, but the possibility may exist.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@stiltskin, I'm still not seeing any reference to clipless pedals in the original post. Neither do I see said reference in the post where you enquire "Why would you ride a £3 grand road bike in a pair of trainers?" As far as I can see, Greenroofer was the first to mention clipless pedals, yesterday.
Fair point. It was in my second post. I stand corrected.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Davecykl may be comfortable with being stopped by some random security guard or vigilante type. I asked how you would feel, not Davecykl.
I was agreeing with Dave.
EDIT As a motorbike courier I got used to the police taking an interest in my everyday activities. It didn't particularly bother me unless they were rude /unpleasant about it or (as they did in one case) make things up. I understood why they might regard Despatch riders as being potentially un-law abiding.Posted 6 years ago # -
@stiltskin, I don't see a reference to clipless pedals in any of your posts so far. Greenroofer seems to have introduced this particular assumption into the discussion.
For "balance" (that term beloved of our Transport Convener), on occasion I have noted young males in casual attire riding what appeared to be quite expensive road bikes. One particular incident was on the prom at Cramond, and three chaps were racing each other on quite nice looking road bikes, while wearing tracksuits, trainers, etc.
I did note that this was not the usual type of cycle that I had seen young casually dressed men riding in the past. Otherwise, I thought nothing much of it, other than that perhaps some young males have adopted the road bike as their ride of choice.
I'm old enough to remember when nearly all young men rode on "racers", regardless of the clothes they happened to be wearing at the time. This was before the "mountain bike" existed...
Posted 6 years ago # -
A couple of weeks back, I saw a young woman on a (to my inexperienced eyes) nice road bike. She was wearing a dress with leggings under and normal flat shoes.
Would she trigger the thief radar? Would a middle-aged man?
A young male neighbour of mine has a very nice and very expensive (I Googled it) road bike. Sometimes I see him nip out in civvies on it. At the weekend he's in serious lycra.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I think you are being deliberately naive. It may be possible that a new fashion has emerged amongst young men from a certain demographic to buy high end road bikes.. who fortunately have parents who are rich enough to buy them said machines, despite living in an area notorious for social deprevation... & who then decide to lounge around on cycle paths without actually riding them much. I also think the chance of this actually being a thing, in the real world & not just the internet, are rather small. It's a bit like saying the bloke with the scarf wrapped around his face has just lost the key to his motorbike and has a wonky satnav which is why he is riding it at 50mph down the cyclepath. Possible? Of course.
I would rather suggest that the presence of groups of young males,sitting on expensive bikes in an area where bike theft gangs are known to operate, implies that these people are sitting on stolen bikes. This is a rather more possible a scenario than the previous one.
I'm not saying every teenager in a hoodie is a thief. I am saying that the presence of these kids on those bikes is suspicious. Enough so that the police would be (& should be)justified in taking an interest. If they are legit, then fair enough, but there is enough that doesn't add up for it not be grossly unfair to investigate them.Posted 6 years ago # -
A couple of weeks back, I saw a young woman on a (to my inexperienced eyes) nice road bike. She was wearing a dress with leggings under and normal flat shoes
Who do you think steals all the bikes which get nicked in Edinburgh? It isn't young women in dresses. (by & large)
I can point to all sorts of people riding bikes in different garbs. I sometimes ride a road bike in jeans. I can see the difference between a gang of youths on mismatched bikes & someone popping down to the shops on their Colnago.
However these bikes are 'enthusiasts' bikes. Even the folding bike with buttefly bars implies a serious commuter. It doesn't ring true that this would belong to a teenager whose mate would happen to have a road bike, and his other friend would have a carbon mtb, and none of them appear to be using them for the purpose for which they are designed. These are 'cyclists bikes' and not one of these people appear to be cyclists. I agree it is not proof, but stolen bikes go somewhere & my money is that this is where they have gone.
EDIT, my LBS tells me there is an Edinburgh instagram group where a whole load of people take photos of themselves to boast about the bikes they have stolen. They aren't ladies who lunch from Morningside.Posted 6 years ago # -
"Who do you think steals all the bikes which get nicked in Edinburgh?"
Who do you think buys them though?
To my thinking, for the sake of safety alone, never mind shifting of stolen bikes and motorbikes, the off road cycle paths should have some sort of CCTV coverage.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I suspect that selling bikes on is not the prime motivation for nicking them. From the burnt out motor bikes I've seen on the NEPN, it's done mainly 'for fun'.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Some end up abroad, some go on Gumtree/ebay. MTBs are often broken up & sold as spares.
http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-02-06/wonder-where-your-stolen-bike-got-to-how-about-kenya-or-cyprus/Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm quite conflicted by this one, but here are a few thoughts.
As someone who grew up in definitely-not-Morningside, I was on occasion stopped by the police while going about my business. I found it unnerving and on one occasion, when I was grabbed by several officers who jumped out of four police cars that just tore round a corner with sirens blazing, terrifying (I just happened to be walking down the road with my gym bag, after a robbery had been reported). It may seem easy for well adjusted adults to interact with the police - not so much for many young people.
That said - some people obviously steal bikes. Most of them are probably young men who live in more deprived areas. The NEPN is a good way of moving stolen goods around away from CCTV and traffic. Some times "things that don't look right" are exactly that. Whether we like it or not, this type of profiling forms the basis of a lot of police and intelligence work.
That said, I seriously doubt there is much value in the police or others challenging people on the NEPN about bike ownership. Could you prove you owned the bike you were sat on? I know I couldn't. More NEPN patrols for public safety would be good - I reckon that efforts to prevent bike theft would be better targeted elsewhere.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@stiltskin Interesting. I expect that the resale value is literally a few quid. Those bikes in the container just looked like scrap.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Patrols of off-road paths for public safety would definitely be a good thing, if only to increase the subjective safety of the paths, particularly among women. Do they really not have CCTV coverage? That seems surprising in this day and age. I thought in the UK we were never more than 10 feet away from a security camera, or is that rats?
Posted 6 years ago # -
The bike thieves I knew lived in Wester Hailes. Ten years back when I was in their house talking to their ma, they were only really looking for mountain bikes. They would shift top end bikes for twenty quid. They were however taken with the frog leg brakes on my Tricross that I brought into the flat to avoid it being stolen. ha.
Their M.O. Was to steal in high volumes and shift them quickly for small amounts.
Nowadays more bikes stolen to order and road bikes are getting a bit more popular.
The thieves do sometimes steal just because they can and then dump the bikes but you do not see that so often.
In my favourite Italian neo-realist movie ladri di Bicicleta when the hero finally tracks down the thieves he has an epiphany In The realisation they were just like him.
Our modern youth are perhaps a tad more amoral.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Just seems worth a note... I often recommend this forum to people who don't read it, on the basis that it includes a good deal of intelligent discussion and wisdom. This thread seems to be such a good example of this that I want to say so here too. It's quite clear that there is (?or was) a fairly high level of disagreement involved - rightly so, this seems a subject worthy of both care AND also one that it's reasonable for people to have strong opinions about - but in general terms politeness has ruled, and actually there have been a fair number of really properly wise contributions from people who have properly justified what they say with evidence. Having read the whole thread I feel wiser and that I've learned from the spread of opinions - even those I was/am less sure about. So to summarise: thanks all. Now don't let me stop you :-)
Posted 6 years ago # -
"Do they really not have CCTV coverage? That seems surprising in this day and age."
Noticed some signs on the poles at Craigleith the other day warning of CCTV, but there have been a few incidents around there.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm fairly sure all of us would like to see more police presence on the off-road paths we use. There are bits of the NEPN that make me vigilant so I'm guessing more vulnerable citizens probably avoid them altogether which is unfair.
I'm also fairly sure none of us are ever going to ask anyone to prove they own the bike they're riding.
(I can actually prove that I own the frame and shifters, the only parts of the bike to have lasted eighteen years.)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Having used the same Brooks saddle for about 8 years now, I can prove the bike is mine (or at least the saddle is) Cinderella-style, for nobody else can comfortably sit on it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
One omnidirectional camera bubble on the tall signpost pole.
Water of Leith path police-taped off between Stedfastgate/Connaught Place and Chancelot junction this morning.Posted 6 years ago # -
@winpig The CCTV-capable light poles at Craigleith 5-ways and Telford Rd slip were initiated by our EH4 Residents and the Maidencraig Residents Assocs with CEC providing funding. They have power to supply cameras but they need the polis to put one of their mobile cameras on the pole. To my knowledge, police have never done so through a spate of assaults, muggings & motorbike incidents on this stretch.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Why WoL path was closed:
"Man left with serious injuries after Edinburgh cycle path assault
Police are investigating following an assault on a cycle path just off Ferry Road. A 24-year-old was taken to hospital with serious injuries following an assault on a cycle path. The incident happened just before 8pm on Monday October 8 with ambulance crews attending the scene. The man is not thought to have life threatening injuries."
NEPN seems to be akin to the wild west at the moment. Police asleep at the wheel? (probably literally)
Posted 6 years ago # -
The community cycle cops in Dumfries take great delight in using the cycle paths - one told me that they will hang out there sometimes after dark, listening out for trouble & then sneaking up on whatever's going on. Of course, we've only got two so they're easier to keep tabs on.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Of course, we've only got two so they're easier to keep tabs on.
Thought for a second you meant you only had two cycle cops to keep tabs on.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'd had a notion to take a meander including the NEPN tomorrow but I'll be steering clear for a while. There have seemingly been a lot of reports of assaults or near misses along there recently.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Trixie, the area near The Red Bridge and a bit further east and then up by Drylaw has always been dodgy after dark. THe assaults accummulate at this time of year as the commuting time starts to coincide with the hours of darkness.
Having said that, some of the reports seem to have been in daylight.
take care everyone
p.s. big fight at the fish and chip shop in Balerno last night, two cod got battered and a poke of chips was a-salted
Posted 6 years ago # -
And, in the stretch east to roughly Granton Road there are frequently a few of the path lights out. As well as the subjective unease this makes it difficult to see unevenness (not so bad now) and debris (a problem after storms) unless you've got eye-searing lights.
Posted 6 years ago #
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