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New cyclocross/gravel bike advice

(34 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by Murun Buchstansangur
  • Latest reply from gembo
  • This topic is not resolved

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  1. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    So a full drivetrain overhaul has failed to rekindle previous good feelings towards my offroad/wet-weather commuting workhorse, a Genesis CdA.

    As my other road-focussed bikes have improved, I’ve become increasingly aware of the sheer heft of the CdA - a trip to scales in mudguards/rack/lights garb revealed 13.5kg. And I’m aware of making excuses to myself not to ride it as much, certainly uphill.

    Criteria would be:

    Sub-10kg (closer to 9 ideally)
    Carbon or light alu frame
    Full set of mounts
    Take up to 38mm tyre (doubt I’d go much wider for the terrain I’m interested in)
    Hydraulic disc brakes (have been converted)
    Probably still 2x drivetrain (still a Luddite regarding 1x)
    Available on Cyclescheme BTW (rules out Canyon - a Grail would be nice)

    Things I’ve seen and liked are

    Orro Terra C
    Ribble CGR
    Specialized Diverge Base

    Any other suggestions?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. mcairney
    Member

    My mate recently got a Giant Revolt Advanced- the standard Revolt is only a little above Cyclescheme money but a smidge over 10Kg (though you could get it below 10Kg with some judicious upgrades):
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/revolt-1

    I got a Merida CX600 for my new commute bike last winter and although I'm not a huge fan of the Apex 1x drivetrain the frame is excellent and it's around 9.6Kg. I think you'll struggle to get a lighter Aluminium framed bike tbh.

    Always been a fan of the Specialized Diverge. I've got a Roubaix as my summer bike and the combination of the Future shock and a decent CF make a huge difference in ride quality even with 110psi tyres. With hindsight I probably could have went for the Diverge instead as it would take fatter tyres but not be much slower on the road.

    Finally I also looked at the Trek Checkpoint. They were a bit "chonky" IMO (around the 11Kg mark) and the base model had Sora (2x9) but only had Mechanical Disc brakes- you had to go up a model for Hydraulics. It also had a wide selection of mounts compared to the other bikes I looked at.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    The new diverge also has a longer reach and looks good

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Thanks both. My work's bike-to-work scheme has a higher limit now than 1k so that's less of a constraint.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Moderator

    MrSrd and I are quite taken with the good looks of the Cinelli King Zydeco.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    Gravel bike of 2019, good name, very light.

    Almost the opposite of a Shand Stoater

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. Jack
    Member

    I can offer a huge shout out for the Diverge. I have the 2018 E5 Sport version, the middle one of the three at that time, and have enjoyed many happy miles on and off road. Just bagged my first puncture only last week, after neariy two years.

    It’s a little heavier than 10kg (10.61kg is what it was listed as) but with the ability to ride 32x32 ...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Thanks @SRD & @Jack. I know someone with a King Zydeco so would be accused of copying!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The Zydeco only has 24 spokes per wheel in the picture. I'd be in mortal terror banging that over gravel trails deep rims or not.

    Oh, hang on...you're supposed to fit separate 650b wheels for off-road.

    What's the weird u-shaped chain stay about?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    What's the weird u-shaped chain stay about?

    Supposed to be to increase clearance for fat tyres (up to 40mm or so), but has the disadvantage that you can't run less than about a 36T chainring without the chain gouging out its own path.

    I look the Zydeco, and every other gravel bike going, and I think:

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    From CCPROTO and continuing for two decades, Cunningham made contributions to the evolution of the mountain bike, some still found on current bikes

    http://cunninghambikes.com/inventions/

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. wingpig
    Member

    If they just left enough clearance for mudguards on the Zydeco there'd be more space for different chainrings. Fair enough that there'd be space if you used smaller wheels, but they also missed out the mudguard and rack attachment points.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    It's a fast race bike. Don't know why they talk about bike-packing.

    https://cinelli.it/en/prodotti/king-zydeco-en/

    The Kevlar bash guards on the down tube have me wondering if carbon's really a good material for going fast over stony ground....

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. SRD
    Moderator

    I gather it’s popular with distance riders - transcontinental etc.

    (I was likewise skeptical about a carbon gravel bike)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    My current frame has internal cable routing that means it's double-skinned above the bottom bracket.

    Taken a few sickening whacks off stones too. I'd be nervous on carbon, but it's a material I kind of see as witchcraft. Don't really have a sense of how resilient it is.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. acsimpson
    Member

    @IWRATS,

    I suspect I'm preaching to the choir here but if the videos are to be believed it's pretty resilient, perhaps stronger even than steel. Right up until it breaks. At that point there is no getting back on the sadle. It Is broken and you pretty much need to walk home.

    With steel (and perhaps other metals) once it's broken the chances are you can ride it home and perhaps even continue riding it, although as you know only too well there comes a point where it is too broken to fix.

    That's my simple, non scientific completely untrained view. I suspect your well researched (and experienced) metallurgist opinion has a lot to add.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Resilience is really toughness rather than strength. CF is up to five times as strong as steel, but as noted has no ductility. CF will take a degree of damage, but it will either crack or delaminate. A crack may not propagate in a sheet, but it will be detectable. Delamination occurs within the structure, because of the nature of the layup.

    Since CF is anisotropic we tend to align the fibres in the same direction as the forces it will experience. We use this to advantage, for example, in Formula 1 suspension arms that are incredibly strong and light for the job they do, yet weak enough you could easily break them if you stood on them. So for the less predictable world of bikes (etc.) we use multiple layers of carbon fibres in alternating or specific other directions to build in durability – insurance against those misdirected forces.

    A bending stress in a CF tube will eventually cause the tube to exceed the strength of the epoxy; the epoxy cracks and delamination and splintering is instant. A point stress is similar, so if the epoxy is compromised the damage may be benign if the forces are low – recall that CF has essentially no fatigue limit under the forces it is designed to endure – or if the stress was created essentially at the surface only. However, a blunter impact can cause internal stress that leads to delamination between layers or between fibres and the epoxy, and this is why the material can appear unharmed at the surface but proceed to fail catastrophically later. Armouring a frame costs weight, so we protect CF parts from surface damage with rinky dink patches of tape, or gelcoat, or better, Kevlar.

    The torpedo is almost wholly CF, but has Kevlar inside the wheelarches to protect against abrasion from the tyres, and thick gelcoat elsewhere. The WAW by contrast, and many of Mike Burrows' earlier creations, used carbon fibres with Kevlar as the binder. Kevlar provides for toughness that pure CF lacks but is slightly heavier than the usual resin.

    Sorry, that's maybe more than you wanted to know.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. acsimpson
    Member

    Sorry, that's maybe more than you wanted to know.

    I'm not aware that there are any limits on what CCE wants to know.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    @acsimpson. We didn’t want to know anymore about that chap Simon’s project? Despite his ‘nephew’s’ pleas.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Great CCE content. There is a metallurgist on here but not me - I was a roustabout chemist.

    Here's a question: do carbon fibre frames have an age limit? Most polymers exposed to the atmosphere begins to autoxidise immediately, some faster then others, becoming yellow and brittle. The process is speeded by light and heat. I think it's the reason motorbike crash helmets have an expiry date. The binder resin in frames will be no exception.

    Should carbon bikes also (do they already?) have an expiry date?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. fimm
    Member

    If, like me, you want to know what "anisotropic" means:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropy#Materials_science_and_engineering

    (from link) "Anisotropy is the property of being directionally dependent, which implies different properties in different directions, as opposed to isotropy. It can be defined as a difference, when measured along different axes, in a material's physical or mechanical properties (absorbance, refractive index, conductivity, tensile strength, etc.)

    An example of anisotropy is light coming through a polarizer. Another is wood, which is easier to split along its grain than across it."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    "do carbon fibre frames have an age limit"

    Manufacturers say not, but they would do, wouldn't they. Paint and lacquers are apparently UV-resistant.

    I think motorbike helmet expiry is more to do with the liner packing out and comprising fit, and maybe a desire to move riders onto improved safety standards (plus it's good for manufacturers' business).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. algo
    Member

    This is orders of magnitude more than I have ever considered paying for a bike, but some of those mentioned also seem to be. If we're talking about resilience of materials, is it worth considering titanium? (possibly not - genuine question)

    https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/titanium-bikes

    https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-cgr-ti/

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @algo thanks, the CGR Ti is definitely on the list

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. acsimpson
    Member

    @gembo, yes perhaps it's just facts rather than opinions which we don't have a limit to knowing. There's plenty of drivers with inner thoughts we would tire of quickly too.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. gembo
    Member

    @algo

    I hired a titanium bike in Mallorca

    my thinking was as follows

    No one else will ever have hired it

    And

    It will not have been damaged like those carbon wallahs

    I was correct it was great. Van Nicholas. They did then try to sell me it but I am still waiting on the titanium price to come down now those weapons scientists have shortened the 16 stage process to 4 steps?

    Last time I went the titanium was dear so went carbon, was lighter and whippier

    This year still waiting on money back from Ryanair

    @acsimpson, agreed, though drivers will be monotonous whereas Simon had spirit, the little rascal

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. wingpig
    Member

    I first encountered anisotropy when switching off anisotropic filtering in the graphics options of an electronic computer game to make it run more smoothly on inadequate hardware.

    A video (probably posted on here long ago) showed someone demonstrating the toughness of an extremely chunky carbon 'downhill' fork by battering it with a mallett. It was evidently unusable when he'd finished, but it made the point that it didn't immediately shatter into its constituent particles.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

  29. gembo
    Member

    Old road bikes with massive clearances

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    “Old road bikes with massive clearances“

    Key thing (usually) is getting a frame built for 27”.

    Fit 700c - plenty room for big tyres. Usually you can get brakes to fit.

    Posted 4 years ago #

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