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Advice re unexpectedly high chain wear?

(64 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by ejstubbs
  • Latest reply from ejstubbs
  • This topic is resolved

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  1. ejstubbs
    Member

    On a whim, I bought a cheap chain wear indicator from Decathlon. While cleaning and lubing my bike after a ride the other day I decided to give the chain wear indicator a try. I wasn't expecting to see much wear so I was shocked when it appeared to show 100% wear, meaning that it's time to replace both chain and cassette, and maybe the chainwheel too (it's an SRAM 1x11 transmission).

    Checking back on Garmin Connect it appears that I'd covered about 900km with this chain, roughly half of that on metalled roads and the other half on loose and/or dirty surfaces. It's an electric bike so it's perhaps to be expected that the chain would be subject to a bit more tension than if it was just my legs providing the drive. Nonetheless, 900km seems a little quick to wear out a chain. (I've never managed to wear a chain out that quickly before).

    However, looking at the reviews of the Decathlon device (which I should perhaps have done before I bought it) there seems to be some doubt cast upon its accuracy/reliablity.

    I guess the best answer would be to take the bike to an LBS and ask them to check the chain with their gauges (and to check my chain more frequently). But I just wondered whether anyone on the forum had any views on the matter, or other suggestions?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Happy to swing by with my Park Tools chain gauge for a second opinion.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. acsimpson
    Member

    You could check the chain using a ruler and the instructions which are readily available online. It's more of a hassle than using a tool but should give you an accurate comparison for your decathlon tool.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. Cyclops
    Member

    Chain checkers give wildly different results although your bike shop should hopefully use one of the more accurate ones. Some of the poorer ones will even tell you a brand new chain needs replaced as they can't differentiate between pin wear and roller movement! Also, different models of chains give different readings due as pins, plates and rollers vary very slightly in size.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. ejstubbs
    Member

    Have checked the gauge vs ruler method and it's clear that the condition of the chain is what may be justifiably described as knackered. Closer inspection of the sprockets also shows a degree of non-symmetricality on the teeth, suggesting that they are also on the way out. Well there you go, every day's a school day: check chain wear more regularly in future!

    Fortunately I have all the necessary tools to replace the cassette and chain so all I need to do is to source a new PG1130 11-42 cassette and an 11-speed chain. One piece of good news: the current chain is 114 links so I don't have to cough up for a longer one.

    Anyone have any views of SRAM PC1130 chain vs the KMC X11 that the bike came with? And do chains normally come with a master link these days or do you still have to source that separately? (The last chain I changed - which was part of a groupset - didn't come with a master link.)

    Unfortunately I can't easily check the condition of the chainwheel as it's sort of semi-shrouded, being part of the Bosch mid-drive system. I know nothing about disassembly/reassembly of those things (it actually seems to have some sort of planetary drive system between the pedals and the chainwheel) so I'll probably have to drop in at EBC anyway to get that checked.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. wingpig
    Member

    I've worn out a chainring on a part-worn chain in about a month, but usually only have to replace cassettes after about 4,000 miles. I've measured chains but never replaced them on the basis of their measurement - sometimes they start getting too laterally waggly, but usually just start skipping on the cassette.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Lateral wag is the killer.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. steveo
    Member

    I've had a couple of KMC chains now and found them pretty good. I've also had loads of SRAM chains and found them pretty good.

    Except the PC-1 which I snapped on my single speed as I pulled away from a set of lights, the result of which left me lying on the floor slightly confused.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. gembo
    Member

    Lateral wag wiped out the corncrakes on South Uist

    Oh wait that was hedgehogs

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. minus six
    Member

    hedgehogs wiped out the corncrakes ?

    thats impressive work on the nightshift

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    Yin and yang Bax San the hedgehogs (introduced by the school teacher) were captured and returned to mainland. Corncrakes came back

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. ejstubbs
    Member

    Dropped by The Bicycle Works this am and their wear checker confirmed that the chain is well past needing replacement, so as I suspected the Decathlon gauge looks to be OK - or at least "good enough". (I did use it to check the chain on my other bike last night and that came up looking OK, which was to be expected after only about 300km, so I was already 99% convinced that all the fault lay with me.)

    I've ordered new cassette, chainring and chain - and the tools required to get at the Bosch chainring - and made a mental note to (a) clean and (b) check my chain on a much more regular basis. I've got all the doings but the wear rate took me by surprise this time (which is another way of saying: too lazy). Also I maybe hadn't properly appreciated how much more mileage I'd been doing recently.

    A rather expensive lesson but it will give me something to do when the weather's not playing ball, anyway...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. wingpig
    Member

    I once had a chain break very suspiciously shortly after I gave it a thorough clean. Seeing as the bits of glag get naturally squidged out from between the links onto the jockey wheels I now just give the jockey wheels and chainring a scrape off every now and then.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. rider73
    Member

    IIRC reading something ebike chains need to be ebike specific or you do get chain stretch and wear due to the higher potential of torgue through the chain? there are ebike chains out there on the market

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. ejstubbs
    Member

    This time round I ordered the same chain that came with the bike which was the KMC X11. The e-bike specific one, the e11, is £15 more. I'll monitor this new one closely and upgrade as soon as it reaches the 50% wear mark (this is per the recommendation for 11-speed chains on the Park Tools web site). If it looks like it's worn unreasonably fast then I'll consider the e-bike version for the next replacement.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. ejstubbs
    Member

    Well, this is turning in to rather more of a performance than I anticipated. Hurdles that I have encountered so far include the following.

    1) My bike turns out to use a non-standard Bosch chainring with a 3mm offset, due to the boost frame geometry. I only discovered that when I scraped all the accumulated crud off (but that was too late to avoid mishap number 3 below). So the non-offset one has gone back to the supplier, and I've ordered up an offset one - at more than twice the price of the 'flat" one. Ouch.

    2) I never realised before now that most torque wrenches don't work for torquing up left-hand threads. The chainring lockring is a left-hand thread, and needs to be done up to ~22kN. The tool for doing this has a ½" square drive. I do have a ½" square drive "push through" torque wrench that will torque up left-hand threads, but it doesn't go down to 22kN. So I've had to order up a new push-through ⅜" drive low range torque wrench to get the thing done up properly (with the help of a ½" drive adapter). But hey: new tools are always a good thing, right?

    3) When I say "done up properly", I mean that I initially attempted to do it up anticlockwise (i.e. the correct way round) but using a right-hand-thread-only torque wrench, which doesn't "click" on left-hand threads even when the ratchet is switched to work that way (I presume this setting is solely intended to be used for unscrewing things). In combination with the non-offset chainring allowing the lockring to screw down too far towards the motor bearing, I managed to trash the O-ring that holds the chainring snug on its splined shaft. So I've ordered up a new O-ring as well.

    It's all a learning experience.

    On the plus side, I have used the downtime while I wait for the new tools and parts to arrive to clean up the jockey wheels on the rear derailleur, which were almost as full of crud as the chainring. My bad.

    I'm also going take the opportunity to fit one of Bosch's external seals on the motor bearing - that's the seal that they didn't used to fit as standard, including on my bike's motor, until people started pointing out that its absence was resulting in a high number of failed motor units having to be replaced under warranty. I'm not aware of any problem with my motor (touch wood) but it seems to be a sensible and - if you've got the drivetrain in pieces anyway - fairly straightforward precautionary step.

    The main takeaway from all this is that my drivetrain cleaning regime needs to be much more assiduous with this bike. Which is not hugely surprising given that I've been taking it on longer rides in significantly rougher and grubbier terrain than any previous bike I've had.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. ejstubbs
    Member

    The above is also why I regard myself as nothing more than an interested tinkerer, and in no way an engineer. As the old saying goes: "an engineer is someone who can do for five shillings what any idiot could do for a pound".

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. steveo
    Member

    Haha, yeah that describes me nicely. This refurb I've been doing on my dads bike would have taken a lbs wrench a couple of hours and they'd have known exactly what needed done. I've been stumbling from problem to problem for the last 6 weeks.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    I caused a small explosion in Balerno today inflating a new Halfords tube

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. ejstubbs
    Member

    @gembo: I think that says more about Halfords than it does about you.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. minus six
    Member

    @stubbsie, ye have little faith in die rote balerno faktion

    sous les pavés, la plage !

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @gembo

    The thing with explosions is to correctly know which category they fall into and to assiduously keep them there;

    iii) Necessary explosions
    b) Regrettable explosions
    4) Implosions
    i) Psychic detonations
    Twelve) Putrid whale bursts
    g) Unnecessary explosions which from a distance look like flowers
    1) Nuclear fusion blasts that scare a cat

    Every chemist worth their salt has caused an explosion. I will tell you about mine some time.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. gembo
    Member

    @IWRATs, wine words. I typed wise but the auto correction is better.

    William Burroughs was trying to sell a gun when he lived in Mexico. To demonstrate the excellence of the gun he played the William Tell Game with his wife Jane. By balancing an apple on her head and shooting it off. Unfortunately he killed his wife. The authorities were surprisingly lenient given that the reason He was selling the gun was that it shot low.

    Now the track pump you found in my garage yesterday was given to me when I had lost my own track pump(which I subsequently found). By the Capt. Of our dad’s road club. He confirms that it reads low. Not that low....SO I think we go with the Stubbsian analysis.

    The Halfords tubes were 4 for a tenner. So I am still up on the deal. No?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @gembo

    I'm going to make a correction: Low shooting is often due to the ammunition rather than the gun but it's too late for that insight now. If Mrs Burroughs had shot Mr Burroughs would she have received the same lenience? I expect so.

    You're up on the deal as long as the new tube doesn't pull the same trick unexpectedly on a remote and rocky descent, pitching you into the black waters of the Eas Reichenbach for one final problem. I don't expect this will happen but maybe pack a spare under the saddle, secured with adhesive tape?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    I am bringing the adhesive taps for the splits in my ortliebs

    Just been sent a photo of a teacher who gravel travelled across Dumfries and Galloway

    Lot of apidura kit on her bike - I will go with the trusty if seam split ortliebs and some dry bags inside.

    This forum and 20 years of breaking panniers has led me to a position where I think I know how to look after panniers, I shall use the laurel and hardy nomenclature (Septober, Octember, Nowonder) as follows

    A) Put a lot of padding at the bottom of the bag - can be foam mat or maybe bubble wrap or other better padding that someone else on here will add
    2) Never put the pannier on the ground, hang it from a handy tree or over your shoulder
    Iv) Do not put anything sharp or jaggy in a pannier
    q) Never over fill a pannier
    3b) Always ride with two symmetrical and lightly stuffed panniers for balance and general coolness

    Apparently Burroughs party piece was playing the William Tell game. How stoned they all were I can only speculate. My dislike of Burroughs is almost all to do with him killing his wife.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    “So I am still up on the deal.“ No?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. gembo
    Member

    4 pound each - my pal Tam got one for going - I wud still be up on the deal if i hadn’t given him one.

    2 pound down on the deal then

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    1 down, several to go...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I have expertise in foam due to having been involved in the art trade. The best foam is called [talk amongst yourselves while I try to remember] Ethafoam 220?

    Also your chain may have excess lateral wag. Probably won't explode but it can be hard to predict.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    “may have excess lateral wag“

    Of course.

    Dogs too.

    Posted 4 years ago #

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