http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12230183
"A long-time campaigner for improvements to Scotland's longest trunk road has said improving the route is more relevant than giving Edinburgh trams."
Not much of a story really...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Upgrading A9 'more relevant than trams' campaigner says
(46 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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He could be right, but then that's more to do with the relevance of Trams than the releveance of a fully dual A9.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Window tax is more relevant than the trams..
Posted 13 years ago # -
Such things are seldom either or.
In this case most of the money seems to have been spent.
It's extremely unlikely that there will be any more SG money - whichever party(ies) is/are in charge in May.
I still fail to understand why Transport Scotland wasn't interested in 'progress' before signing the cheques!
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Window tax is more relevant than the trams.."
That's true - filled-in windows are still with us hundreds of years later...
Posted 13 years ago # -
The irony of a Conservative MSP complaining about the lack of progress on the A9 after having voted in favour of spending the money on the trams....
Posted 13 years ago # -
Window tax is more relevant than the trams..
Well before double glazing, Scotland led the way with blocked off windows.
I'll say this again.
If we were serious in changing energy use we'd dual and electrify the railway first.
People could hop on a train in (eg) Manchester and go to Highland Scotland directly.
Goods could go by train with more capacity. The transport corridor should develop the resources we have.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Horrible crashes still happen on fully-dualed roads. And 2 lane motorways. And 3 lane motorways. Ad infinitum.
In pure terms of shifting freight and passenger journeys off the road, I've no idea what doubling the Highland mainline would cost (or at least putting in sufficient passing loops to increase the line capacity significantly) but I'm pretty sure £600 million would go a long way towards it.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I have from an inside source that £70 million would knock a lot of time off journey.
Scotrail may introduce hourly trains to Inverness this year. Seems to be if it can't be fast at least it will be more frequent.
Of course when they meet a delayed 'frequent' train going the other way they have to use a passing place. One delay then leads to another etc.
Posted 13 years ago # -
How many folk would use it, though?
Posted 13 years ago # -
The Airdrie to Bathgate reinstatement was costed at £312 million. I haven't read about any overspend.
That was putting the track back in place over a distance of 15 miles, the longest piece of railway building in Scotland for around 100 years.
I don't know how much of the track bed had been dug up and there was work done on bridges. They also upgraded and added stations.
http://www.airdriebathgateraillink.co.uk
It seems a much more logical route to take than the Queen St - Falkirk - Waverley route. I wonder what was going through Beeching's mind as he did Marples' dirty work.
From my point of view it was money well spent which I can't say for the trams.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The Airdrie to Bathgate reinstatement was costed at £312 million.
That was putting the track back in place over a distance of 15 miles,
I don't know how much of the track bed had been dug up and there was work done on bridges. They also upgraded and added stations.
Now - imagine dualling the railway line from Perth all the way to Inverness. £600m would hardly make a dent.
Posted 13 years ago # -
They say that one of the main problems with the A9 is the changes between dual and single carriageway. Wouldn't it be cheaper to remove the dual carriageway? Perhaps turn one of the lanes into a cycle lane?
Posted 13 years ago # -
Hehe, how brilliant would that be? It is the perfect solution to the dual/single issue!
Posted 13 years ago # -
I don't know how much of the track bed had been dug up and there was work done on bridges. They also upgraded and added stations.
Both Drumgelloch and Bathgate were completely rebuilt on new sites. I know that the cost of the Caldercruix station, which they had to campaign to be added on to the route, required £5m. Rebuilding Bathgate into the grand "intermodal transport hub" that it now is must have cost a significant amount, as would the maintenance depot next door. Then there's the costs associated with electrification, compulsory land purchase in urban areas and redoubling the existing single tracks to Bathgate and Drumgelloch.
Interestingly, the costs for the (single line) "Waverley route" re-instatement are c. £235-295 million. I think this is more similar to the Highland mainline in terms of it's rural geography. It is also specified to a lower running speed and capacity I think, therefore signalling and engineering of the permanent way is significantly cheaper.
I wonder what was going through Beeching's mind as he did Marples' dirty work.
I doubt very much as he left it open! The passenger service was withdrawn in the early days of the BTC, well pre-Beeching. The line persisted with the colliery traffic from Polkemmet until the early 1980s.
From my point of view it was money well spent which I can't say for the trams.
Absolutely, as it benefits the West Coast, the East Coast and the central belt. It's of note that this is a heavy rail engineering project to full mainline standards, is longer than the tram route and yet costs half as much! Says something about those in Transport Scotland determined to poo-poo the idea of re-opening service on the Edinburgh South Sub as not being cost efficient.
Posted 13 years ago # -
They say that one of the main problems with the A9 is the changes between dual and single carriageway
I think one of the main problems is that they were put in with the intention of being used as "crawler lanes" to let people safely pass the convoys of HGVs and caravans that build up on the A9, yet people see the second lane appearing and put their fut down for full warp speed, then forget when they are leaving the dualled section and continue to treat the single section as if it is a motorway.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Has the Airdrie to Bathgate cycle path been re-opened yet?
Posted 13 years ago # -
cb - no, Network Rail say the cycle path will re-open in "spring 2011". I would assume this has been delayed by the winter weather (they are still trying to finish a few of the new stations) and probably means May or June.
Posted 13 years ago # -
PS - How many folk would use it (rail to Inverness), though?
More than at present. The A9 is showing growth in traffic - I suspect a dualled A9 will actually attract more and further reduce the attractiveness of rail.
I'm not anti road improvement. But... a lot of people hammer down the A9 into Perth from Pitlochry and back because rail is slow and expensive.
£70 million figure was not for dualling whole railway but adding capacity where possible.
Electrification would be £700 million but at same time you'd have a viable use for energy being produced in North. Not just wind but tidal.
Electric trains last a lot longer too....Posted 13 years ago # -
Electric trains last a lot longer too....
Manx Electric Railway still going strong. some of their units must be approaching 100 years old...
How many folk would use it (rail to Inverness), though?
If you could get on a train in Edinburgh or Glasgow and be in Aviemore by 9AM, get a day's skiing up at Cairngorm in and then a train back home, I'm sure a lot more people would.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
Jason Rose (@greendadtwit)
22/03/2013 13:15
Gov's own report on A9 dualling: "This intervention would not support the road traffic reduction aspirations."http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/reports/j10194a/j10194a-a2D14.pdf
"
Posted 11 years ago # -
Says something about those in Transport Scotland determined to poo-poo the idea of re-opening service on the Edinburgh South Sub as not being cost efficient.
I thought a problem with the South Sub was the limited capacity at Waverley? Only two lines handling all the traffic coming in from the West, South-West and North?
Posted 11 years ago # -
There has been plenty wrong with the South Sub 'economics' over the years.
Various claims -
'It would only replace the 38 bus'
'Not enough line capacity due to freight traffic'
Well that will be easier now Cockenzie is shut.
Apart from all the potential local passenger traffic (not all going to/from Waverley/Haymarket) there would be opportunities for trains from outside Edinburgh to go to Galashiels without going via Waverley - change at Edinburgh Park if people wanted to go to centre of town.
Imagine getting a train at Bathgate changing at EP getting on a train that might have started at Dunblane, and seeing people getting off at Newcraighall (for QMU) with a shorter journey time than if they had changed at Waverley.
But TS is more interested in roads than actually how people want to travel.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Interestingly, Network Rail are proposing to electrify the sub during the next control period (2014-19) to relieve pressure on the Waverley, which will be increasingly served by electric trains. Funds not 100% guaranteed, but it looks pretty likely.
My understanding is the main barrier to passenger services is the flat junction at Haymarket - it takes trains quite a while to come off the sub at Haymarket, blocking the lines for Fife/Glasgow trains. Not a problem in the past when there were far fewer trains on these routes. Might not be the problem it was with the removal of freight trains for Cockenzie and Longannet trains now using the Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine line.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Maybe they could increase capacity into Edinburgh by building a railway down the Western Approach Road and creating a station at Lothian Road.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Or maybe some on road light rail would help, maybe from the airport to haymarket...
Posted 11 years ago # -
"it takes trains quite a while to come off the sub at Haymarket"
Should be less of a problem with electric trains with better acceleration going round the 'outer circle'.
Have only just noticed (Google Maps) that the Haymarket to Gorgie Road spur is currently only single track which would presumably have to be doubled if there were ever to be frequent Sub trains.
Posted 11 years ago # -
'Not enough line capacity due to freight traffic'
Cobblers.
There is now no passenger services (apart from empty coach and diverted workings) and a minimal level of freight running through, in comparison to what would have rumbled down it in the days when the line was used for trip working (there were substantial yards at Morningside and Blackford).
Interestingly, Network Rail are proposing to electrify the sub during the next control period (2014-19) to relieve pressure on the Waverley, which will be increasingly served by electric trains. Funds not 100% guaranteed, but it looks pretty likely
Because of the role of the sub as a diversionary line, if you electrify what's going into Waverley then of course you also have to electrify that line if you want it to have much use.
Was there ever that much Cockenzie / Longannet traffic using the sub? My understanding was that imported coal traffic for Cockenzie largely came in at Leith docks and that for Longannet comes in at Hunterston and the west - but had to use Forth bridge until the line from Alloa to Kincardine was reinstated - as the only access left when they shut the pit at Longannet was along the Fife coast. Either way it couldn't have been more than a few trains a day.
Have only just noticed (Google Maps) that the Haymarket to Gorgie Road spur is currently only single track which would presumably have to be doubled if there were ever to be frequent Sub trains.
It was indeed double at one point, I assume BR rationalised it, as for a diversionary loop it only makes sense to have the double access pointing towards the west. I suppose one major issue is that they want to increase throughput of Glasgow trains, and to enter/exit the S&SJ lane you need to cross the E&G lines.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Frequency of Glasgow trains won't increase under EGIP, they'll just be longer.
Best use of the south sub would really be tram trains but it would be a b to get them across the tracks at Haymarket, what with health and safety and all that.
Posted 11 years ago #
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