Ferries being meaningfully less polluting than flying requires some very generous accounting where all the co2 of the ferry is allocated by weight to the freight, rather than to the passengers by revenue or the dedicated floor areas of the ferry. This seems pretty pointless all around.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Ferry latest
(99 posts)-
Posted 2 months ago #
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Plans for a hovercraft service running between Fife and Edinburgh are being explored by council officials, it has emerged.
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https://www.midlothianview.com/news/hovercraft-to-fife-being-explored?
Posted 1 month ago # -
The figures for the earlier hovercraft service actually showed it was popular for certain times, plus the 'special' connecting bus service to Ocean Terminal was well used, for some trips
However the crossing times plus the boarding points being well away from bus & rail routes rather scuppered its operation as a pax only service
The near immediate delivery of a fast crossing (12-15 min) using an available high speed vessel (40kts, c.200pax), can be immediately delivered using a vessel already certificated for operation in Class C and Class D estuarial waters is possible, to run between Burntisland (restoring the original ferry terminal for the original train ferry) & crossing to Newhaven for the trams to the city centre
The options can be to use a 'spare' Redjets Catamaran from Southampton-Cowes route (11 Nm in 25 minutes) or one of the fast ferries found in Baltic, or in S China Sea carrying 200-250 pax & light freight (ie premium courier services - for medical samples &c)
Outside regular services (ie off peak) the ferry can be used as a tender for cruise liners unable to enter Leith Docks, and also run other ferry routes (eg Leith-Rosyth-Grangemouth as required)
This makes a substantial improvement on the original hovercraft, and uses a 'conventional' vessel rather than using the beach/apron areas that were adjacent to 2 bus depots (Kirkcaldy & Seafield) where hovercraft could be parked and refuelled with same diesel as buses. At each end there are both tram/rail services, carrying 150-200 passengers (roughly same as ferry capacity) and no requirement for special connecting buses, as this ferry service will already have regular PT services
Additionally there is space at Burntisland Docks to provide a park & ride facility, which could even be expanded by mooring an available car ferry here
Posted 1 month ago # -
“Additionally there is space at Burntisland Docks to provide a park & ride facility, which could even be expanded by mooring an available car ferry here“
As you may know, there are grand plans as part of the ‘green port’ including a new long pier.
If Forth Ports were interested in a ferry it could happen. If not..,
Posted 1 month ago # -
To me, it doesn't make sense for ferries to duplicate routes that are already serviced by trains. Travelling over water is always going to be much slower (and more carbon intensive) than electrified steel wheels on a steel rail.
Where the ferry service would come in handy is connecting towns in Fife not already serviced by rail to the rail network in the Lothians, e.g. North Berwick to the East Neuk.
It's a pity the harbour tide times are so restrictive at North Berwick, and at Anstruther, otherwise it would be fantastic to have a daily service between the two, instead of the fortnightly service at present.
Maybe we could appropriate the golf courses at either end for hovercraft landing points to provide a daily service?
Posted 1 month ago # -
“To me, it doesn't make sense for ferries to duplicate routes that are already serviced by trains“
Yes.
But the key is “duplicate”.
And also to what extent the aim is to replace existing car journeys.
A ferry from Fife could be seen as ‘duplication’ if passengers are heading for central Edinburgh or further south.
I have no idea if there has been any credible research in recent years about the potential demand/routes for cross Forth travel.
I suspect a significant number of people using the hovercraft trial were doing so for the novelty factor.
A significant problem is that rail journeys to/through Fife are often marred by standing room only services.
To what extent this is predictable due to ‘normal’ working behaviours/events at Murrayfield/Ingliston etc is unclear.
Definitely made worse by ‘short trains’ where usual 5 coaches become 2 or 3, due to lack of available ’spare’ units.
I’ve been told part of the problem is not enough maintenance staff at Haymarket Depot.
Whether this is recruitment, training, retention, money or older rolling stock requiring more looking after, I don’t know.
As ever, ‘Transport’ isn’t joined up enough with the ongoing problem that politicians believe that ‘most people’ want more cars/roads.
They might be right. But I’d argue that politicians aren’t there just to give people what they think they want.
But politicians doing what they want doesn’t always work either…
Posted 1 month ago # -
The figures for the earlier hovercraft service actually showed it was popular for certain times, plus the 'special' connecting bus service to Ocean Terminal was well used, for some trips
However the crossing times plus the boarding points being well away from bus & rail routes rather scuppered its operation as a pax only service
It's important to remember that this was a trial service. Without the investment in a concrete apron and appropriate terminal building for ticket sales and waiting, and proximity for refuelling, Portobello was the logical choice. Leith Docks is a) heavily industrialised and the parts that aren't are miserable to the traveller; b) mostly off-limits to the public anyway; c) requires access via the sea lock; and d) poorly served by PT to the shoreline until you reach Newhaven.
The Ryde-Southsea hovercraft has a large car park at the Southsea end, and a bus service. At Ryde there is a large car park, a railway, a bus service and a ferry pier. Ryde has the advantage of having established itself at the shore rather than some distance inland like Edinburgh, and not industrialising the heck out of its port like Leith.
Posted 1 month ago # -
@Arellcat @neddie The hovercraft ran on regular diesel, and landed on the bus depot 'aprons' for Stagecoach (Kirkcaldy)/Lothian Buses (Seafield)- IIRC Neil Renilson (ex Stagecoach) was MD of Lothian Buses at this time as well
A 12-15 minute journey (plus 10 minute bus ride to Central Edinburgh) is substantially more attractive than an hour or so on the train or coach via the Queensferry crossings
Hence a detail to discuss with Peel Ports?
They might find this useful for staff moving between sites as well...
There are many examples of fast (40kts & higher) 'ferries' using catamaran, planing (deep chine & stepped down transom) or hydrofoil configuration, that typically carry 200-300 pax plus light freight (premium courier services)
These can usually use regular harbours, and even land on some beaches. I note that trips on Loch Ness to Glenurqhart Castle using the Scot II icebreaker, would ram the bow into the steeply sloping land at the shoreline to get passengers on/off, as the stern was sitting over water going down over 20 metres... Hence a very practical option would be to sail from Burntisland to the marina pontoons at Newhaven, with a shallow draft vessel (eg a water jet propulsion catamaran)
Posted 1 month ago # -
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Any service is still some time away from launching, but the hope is that by next year a framework will be in place to start making serious inroads and all the key players will be round the table to look at locations, infrastructure and which type of vessel could be deployed across the Forth.
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Posted 3 weeks ago #
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