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When I did my bike build project last year, I didn't think too long about dérailleur v internal hub gear options. Actually I don't remember thinking about it at all. Now having seen this I am beginning to think I should have done. Should I have gone for an internal hub gear?
PS. sorry about the awful grammar...
I'm completely converted to hub gears. Especially for stop and go cycling, and with weight on the back). Phenomenal.
(grammar...and the randomised accents! [edit: apparently that is where the accent goes; would not have thought so. Sorry! I do proof-read in French occasionally and would have got that wrong!!])
I completely agree, for purely utilitarian cycling they are perfect. I think more people would keep cycling if they had them.
My "utilitarian" bike has 1 gear. My touring bike has a triple up front and 9 at the back. It has reasonably high-end shimano derailleurs which shift very quickly and although you cant shift standing still, you can very quickly drop through the gears as you slow up to the lights. Both my road bikes have doubles at the front, the older has 8 and the newer has 10 at the back. I change the shifter cables fairly regularly (in cable replacement terms) and keep the mechs clean and trimmed. Admittedly takes a bit of time and some gentle screwdriver work.
I'd say it's whatever works for whatever sort of cycling you want to do. You definitely seem to get what you pay for and most bottom-end bikes come with a horrible set of plastic derailleurs that just won't stay trimmed and are slovenly to change and naff shifters that aren't easy to operate. STIs are just braw.
Hub gearing looks very nice on more traditional bikes. In my most humble and personal opinion, the CdeF looks best as a derailleur bike.
Have any of the people voting for derailleurs ever ridden a new-generation hub-gear bike? [ie not SA 3speed on a heavy. heavy bike]
I'm going with a decisive, it depends....
If your journeys regularly involve steep/long hills you might appreciate the wider range available or on a longer run you might like the closer spacing available on a 8/9 speed block. No doubt its better from a maintenance pov but even for a purely utility cyclist the Dérailleur has advantages.
SA 3-speed, yes. One of the multi-speed modern ones Nexus / Rofl-off, no.
When the new bike gets here (comeoncomeoncomeon!) Its gonna have SRAM dual-drive, which will be the first internal hub gear I will have used, so Im prolly gonna end up with the advantages and disadvantages of both! Was thinking about a 'hoff but its just too pricey at the moment.
I've refrained from voting since I've only ridden a Dérailleur.
"just too pricey at the moment"
You know something about the future??
I voted dunno. I haven't used a hub gear since 1993; whilst a three-speed S-A was fine for a paper round in a flat village it seemed a little limited for traversing the flat but often windy countryside on inter-settlement journeys, especially after getting used to twelve speedsworth of dérailleur. I'd have to do some calculations around the cost and comparing the potential available ratios of modern fancyhubs to the dérailleurèd range I generally use on my current journey profile set but would consider the possibility in the future.
To quote kaputnik "I'd say it's whatever works for whatever sort of cycling you want to do."
I do have a hub geared bike that I use for commuting (alfine). But it has never been quite as maintenance free as I'd hoped - still got a chain - and it is very heavy. So if you want good acceleration it is not for you. Having said that once you get going it is not too bad and it is good training for the weekend.
Of course, we're all completely wrong on this subject and the correct answer is the hy-hub-railleu-brid
The O.T.B. currently sports a Sturmey-Archer AW 3-speed hub, with 7 sprockets, driven by 3 chainwheels: 3 x 7 x 3 = 63. When people hear that I have built a 63-speed bicycle, the first question they ask is "do you really need all those gears?
No, no and thrice no. I have sold one 81 speed trike. That is a Dual Drive with 3 rings on front.
I found the 8 or 9 speed Rapto was pleasant to use. You could see which number you were in for a start ...and you never got the feeling that you may have been in the wrong gear!
HUB GEARS On the Circe tandems they seem to sell. Although two powerful adults could I'm sure strip the innards I think for people who pedal in the 250w area it should be fine. Latest demo has an 11 speed Alfine. Range is 400%+
Rohloff gear is the one... should be drained and refilled every two years or x,000 miles.
Many aren't and they still go on. New Alfine has similar requirements.
For commuting on a route you know and that isn't too long, I'd say hub gears every time. You can adjust the exact range by choosing the right chainring, after all.
I've got an Alfine hub, and I love the fact that I don't have to think changing gear in advance. I drift up to traffic lights in whatever gear I happen to be in, and change down once I've stopped. If it's an emergency stop, it's great: you slam on the brakes, do all the necessary swearing at the culprit and then change down again before you set off. No straining to get a bit of momentum going so you can change gears.
Love it. Just hope it doesn't break. It doesn't seem to be what the army call 'field-maintainable'...
Having seen the absolute pasting which my wee hardtail has taken this winter - including commuting in all the snow, ice and salted roads - I've come to the conclusion that a modern hub-geared bike would be better for that specific application.
However, before I can buy one I must make a slot in my garage by getting rid of something else......
I don't know that many people do maintain Alfines. The bumf used to say dunk in oil once a year.
Sturmey Archer parts are relatively easy to get. SJS have individual pawls, springs and other bits in their catalog. SA have exploded diagrams on their web page with part number lists.
Rough whiskery chaps with pipes will be able to speak in hushed tones about anti rotation washers, pinions and planets.
I like the philosophy of hub gears, deraileurs look like a bit of a bodge. Not being able to change when it's stationary is annoying on my trike. If there's space in the advanced stop box I can turn it through 360 and change down before the lights change but that looks a bit odd.
Top gear as the default position is a bit of a pest. If you break a cable then it moves into top.
@chdot I reckon if utility cycling grows as we expect it too (the trouble in the east should help, crude has gone up $2 a barrel in the last couple of days) then yeah I think they will come down in price, specially if Shimano come out with a 'hoff beater (a string vest from the eighties) which they nearly have done if the new Alfine has 400%+ range...
@rtc
Logical, but wonder if R has the desire/capacity to expand production to the required level to mean significantly reduced prices - especially without moving all/most production eastwards.
The price of bikes has one down quite a lot in 'real terms' in recent years - but will never be like the way things work in the consumer electronics industry - better and cheaper (constantly).
I wonder what the cost of a SA 3 speed hub was (compared with a week's wages) when it first came out.
Yeah you may be right about the 'hoff's capacity for production, and they may be happy to keep their niche along with its associated price tag. I think that would be a mistake (ossification almost always is) but its all dependent on their business plan, maybe we could interview them for the citycycling magazine?
Oh and if transistor designs had been restricted to their 1930's abilities by a conservative governing body then I reckon they too would be slow and expensive today :)
I recently bought a bike with a Nexus hub (8-speed) for commuting on the WOLW and the Union tow path, and I think hub gears are ideal for that use, but there are some snags.
If you get a flat, removing the rear wheel is a chore because of the fiddly cable latch on the Nexus; I think it might not be possible in the dark.
You do need to fettle the cable too. It's easy (line up the yellow dots) but if you don't do it regularly (say, once a week) the gears will slip, which is unpleasant and probably not good for the gears either.
Finally, having looked at the exploded view, I'm not looking forward to repairs...
Granted getting the back wheel off is a pig. I have considered getting some sort of puncture proof back tyre for my folder but have not got round to it yet. I have only had trouble with gear slippage if I have had the back wheel off and not put everything back correctly.
Oliver Bulleid designed the ultimate in low maintenance chain gearing back in the early 1940s...
, encased in an oil bath to try and get 100,000 miles in between maintenance. Unfortunately for various reasons it didn't really work as intended and sealing it up in a protective bath proved to be a mainteance frustration. Should have stuck to derailleurs...
It's pretty easy to get the cable off on my bike (alfine is pretty much the same as nexus) - as easy as geting the rear wheel off with a derailleur. Following the shimano instructions, put the gears into 1st, then remove the cable from the feed arm (that sticks out from the hyb towards the front- called the cassette joint). Then it is easy to disengage the nut at the end of wire. See http://www.hubstripping.com/shimano-alfine/shimano-nexus-cables-hooking-en.jpg
If you get a flat, removing the rear wheel is a chore because of the fiddly cable latch on the Nexus; I think it might not be possible in the dark.
Alfine is similar but better I reckon - SRAM Dual Drive uses a click box which is neat..
On-one currently have a very good deal on the alfine 8; in case anyone is like me and reading this thread and lusting after some hub gear action.
I'm thinking of putting one on my mtb as a no-fuss gear and/or easy to single speed solution.
An MTB frame will probably need a chain tensioner or an eccentric BB.
I've single-speeded it with a chain tensioner before and didn't find it too much hassle. I was also thinking of changing frame soonish, so would be tempted by slot drop-outs.
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