Touring on a cheap folding bike? « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Touring on a cheap folding bike?

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Started 13 years ago by crowriver
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crowriver
Member

I may be letting myself in for lots of criticism here, but I wondered if anyone had any advice or views on the potential for touring on a folding bike?

I've toured on my 700c wheeled bike, the one issue being mixed mode travel. Scotrail trains are usually fine, but on Highland services and long distance trains to England (or Eurostar) you have to reserve a space and/or pay a fee to take a full sized bike. Frankly that is a bit of a pain, especially if a change of trains is required (run by a different company, with different reservation procedures, etc.). So a folder seems to be one possible solution.

I don't mean a specialist folder/seperable costing a grand or more that's designed for touring, like a Bike Friday/Airnimal/Moulton, nor even the Dahon Speed TR, also made for touring. I don't want to spend that kind of money, at least not yet. I'm talking about a cheap, basic folder, to which I'll make a few simple improvements, and so hopefully make it more suitable.

It's a Raleigh Swift, they retail in Halfords for £170, I got two of them second hand for less than half full price, barely used, sitting in a garage for a year, like new really. Below a pic of the stock configuration. It's not especially light, it's no speed demon (if anything a little under geared for the flat), but I've been using it for my mixed mode commute and it is remarkably nimble, accelerates quickly, feels reasonably sturdy/rigid, takes on hills with no problem and is good for hopping on and off trains.

I've already replaced the rear rack on one of the Swifts with a standard alloy rear rack, so I can carry full sized panniers. I've also added a Dahon traveller front rack, which fits on the chunky BMX style forks with the aid of V-brake pad spacers and longish bolts. So I can carry panniers there too to balance the bike a bit. Next I'll replace the stock low pressure tyres with Schwalbe Marathons, and upgrade the 6 speed freewheel to a Shimano megarange 6 speed with a 34T granny gear to get me up hills with a touring load. I will swap the stock saddle for an elastomer sprung, wider touring model, and also add some stubby bar ends to help vary my hand position on longer rides. I'm also trying out solutions for bottle cages (no bosses on the frame) and a handlebar bag. Most of the weight will be on a Carry Freedom Y-Frame Small trailer (which costs twice what the bike did), so I should not feasibly exceed the weight limit for the frame.

Apart from the obvious things like the lowish top gear, cheap components which are likely to wear out or fail more rapidly than those of a more expensive bike, is there any reason why I should not go touring or cycle camping with this set up?

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"I may be letting myself in for lots of criticism here"

'We' only encourage everyone to ride something.

I think you've answered most of your own questions - you know about practical limitations and modifications.

The only thing I would say to 'most' people is make sure your tyres are hard and the saddle comfortable enough for the mileage you intend to do.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Another thought - I hope your brakes are up to all the extra weight.

Beware long descents.

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Have you thought about a S/H childrens bike trailer?

The weight would be off the bike, and they fold too. One large 100ltr holdall would take all the separate bags when hopping on and off the train, meaning one bike, one folded trailer and one large bag to move onto the train. Then when cycling pop the holdall in the trailer. I had a Northface 110ltr Base Camp Duffle but Go Outdoors have a sale on :
Tuesday 3rd May 2011 from 8.30pm – 10pm where we will be offering a discount of 20% OFF rrp prices on EVERYTHING instore. and have Hi Gear Luga Cargo 120Ltr for £55.

Just a thought.

Posted 13 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Quote chdot: Another thought - I hope your brakes are up to all the extra weight.

Beware long descents.

I've seen a folding bike on the train a few times, with forks with welded bosses on and a disk brake at the front.

Posted 13 years ago #
Min
Member

I'd be tempted to pack it up and take it for a test ride first. But if you are happy then why not?

Posted 13 years ago #
steveo
Member

Can the fold points take the extra weight?

Posted 13 years ago #
wingpig
Member

Will the stock rear mech have the capacity for a 34t sprocket? Will the hub-ground distance have the capacity for a longer-caged rear mech, especially when it's at full tension when on the largest sprocket?

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Wow! So many responses in such a short time!

@chdot Another thought - I hope your brakes are up to all the extra weight.

They're Alhonga alloy V-brakes, pretty basic, but seem to have stopping power. Apparently Brompton used to spec these at one time, so they can't be all bad. I've already come down some steep hills with my commuting stuff on the back and they were fine. Also I've tested it with the trailer, just with fairly light loads so far and the bike stops fine. Forgot to mention I'll be swapping the stock levers for some better Shimano ones. Obviously I'll check the cables, pads etc. before going on tour.

@Dave Crampton Have you thought about a S/H childrens bike trailer?

That's a really interesting suggestion. I already have the Carry Freedom, which disassembles quickly to quite a small size. I've asked the other half to make me a nice carry bag for it. I've got the Ortlieb XL rack pack to strap on top (bright yellow, special offer from Blackleaf.com), maybe I will leave space in it to add the panniers etc. when boarding: good tip.

@Min I'd be tempted to pack it up and take it for a test ride first.

Absolutely!

@wingpig Will the stock rear mech have the capacity for a 34t sprocket?

Very good question. I wondered that too! The stock freewheel is 14-28T, so not too much of a jump. However I'll test it on a spare back wheel first and see!
If not, then new rear mech? Hmm, may just struggle on with the stock freewheel in that case. To be honest I've only used bottom gear once, on a very steep hill.

Posted 13 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Wow! So many responses in such a short time!"

'We' aim to please.

CCE is no ordinary Forum...

Posted 13 years ago #
Cyclingmollie
Member

and the saddle (is) comfortable enough for the mileage you intend to do

With an upright bike like this you will need to be careful with your saddle choice as you will be putting most of your weight on your saddle. Soft isn't usually best and I think there's a consensus that a Brooks are best (though it's been nearly forty years since I rode one). Other saddles are available.

Posted 13 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

i'm beginning to think the saddle debate is nearly as invasive as the thread debate, if somewhat less toxic...

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@steveo: Can the fold points take the extra weight?

The frame is apparently rated for a maximum load of 120kg (including the rider), which is pretty impressive I have to say. Whether that is a safe weight is another matter, I'll try not to find out!

Most of the weight will be on the trailer, but even if the trailer is at maximum load (factoring in 1/3 of that load on the rear axle as Carry Freedom suggest) I've still got more than 20kg of load on the bike to play with if need be. I'll try to keep the load on the trailer, and the bike itself as light as I can (certainly not 20kg of luggage on the bike).

Posted 13 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

You could get one of these trailers:

http://www.carryfreedom.com/index.html

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@Cyclingmollie: With an upright bike like this you will need to be careful with your saddle choice as you will be putting most of your weight on your saddle.

I tend to prefer a more upright cycling posture anyway. I'm not a racing/audax type and haven't had a drop handlebar bike for nearly twenty years! I take your point though. I find the Specialized Body Geometry range to be quite comfy for most uses. I don't really fancy the breaking in period for a Brooks saddle, I prefer the saddle to be comfy straight away rather than 500 miles later. I know they are supposed to be the best, but I don't want the "punishment" as Bill Houston would have said...

I'll probably try a slightly broader saddle than normal (a 'touring' model), with raised pads for the hips to rest on and a groove or channel for the "lad bits" (again Mr. Houston).
Elastomers or springs will be necessary I think due to the 'bouncy' ride from the small wheels. Stock saddle is fine for hiking up to the station but not on a longer ride methinks...

Posted 13 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Elastomers or springs will be necessary I think due to the 'bouncy' ride from the small wheels.

Check out the saddle that Laidback uses when grownups riding stoker on tandem. Sounds like it might be what you need.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@wee folding bike: I believe I mentioned I already have this one: http://www.carryfreedom.com/Y-Frame.html

Posted 13 years ago #
tammytroot
Member

Sounds good. I've just bought a wee folder off the web with a view to hopping on and off trains and doing a bit of exploring over the summer (not really touring as such). Good luck and post a report/some pics once you get back.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Thanks everyone for your advice and views. I'm definitely going for a test ride soon, and will bear in mind the points raised here. I'll post some pics of the upgraded bike once it's all done; if I get to anywhere scenic on the test ride will add a snap of the folder in situ...

Posted 13 years ago #
druidh
Member

I was at Cape Wrath a few years back (walked to get there) and a couple of guys turned up with bikes. One was riding a small folder just like that in the picture above. They had come from Lands End and had been camping en route.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@druidh: Thanks for the encouragement! JOGLE on a Raleigh Swift would be a hell of a tour... ;)

@wingpig: Did a bit of research and it seems I'll need a megarange capable rear derailleur to use the megarange freewheel. Luckily I also found some examples of both being fitted to 20" wheeled folding bikes, so hopefully clearance will not be too much of a problem. ~~Seems the megarange mechs are 'direct bolt on' rather than using a gear hanger, so keeping the clearance.~~ (Got that bit wrong) The one I need is a tenner new on eBay, and will work with my Revoshifters, so may as well swap it.

Might do my fully loaded test ride with the 14-28 cogs and see how it feels. Keep the fitting of megarange freewheel in reserve as an option if the test ride hills are too often "push ups"...

Posted 13 years ago #
tammytroot
Member

Yay! My eBay folder arrived today. Fun to ride but so slow! Now off to check train times routes to exotic climes. ( or should that be climbs?)

Posted 13 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

I was avoiding the TV today by cycling at the wind farm and cooking up some mac cheese in the middle of the moor for two of the boys.

I'd emailed the wind farm about one of the requirements for their organised rides, with which I had no intention of complying, and been told the terrain was quite challenging.

I didn't have any bother at all on a 10 yr old Brompton M6R which has full length mudguards, a rack and built in Schmidt lighting. I had the BIG Brompton bag on the front which carried the Heinz tins, stove, rug and so on.

People do some quite surprising things on fold up bikes.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@tammytroot Yay! My eBay folder arrived today. Fun to ride but so slow!

I hear you. Mine runs out of gears on the flat quite easily unless there's a headwind! I do like the nippy acceleration at traffic lights though. What did you get from eBay? Vintage folder or recent Dahon or something?

@wee folding bike People do some quite surprising things on fold up bikes.

Sounds great. I'm hoping to test out my wee Raleigh a bit more thoroughly in the near future. Need to swap the tyres out first!

Posted 13 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

I was using Marathon/Marathon Plus at the wind farm and I use them over the winter on the road.

When the weather perks up I go for the acceleration of Stelvio or Kojaks. I got the Kojaks in July and haven't had a flat on them yet but they were sitting in the garage from Oct - April. I don't think 349 mm Stelvios are still available.

Posted 13 years ago #
gembo
Member

@crowriver - I am trying to picture you at the train station with the folding bike, the folding trailer, luggage and panniers. Does seem like a fair bit of kit, I would probably forget something [knowing me, I would therefore make a checklist of each item to make sure I had them when alighting, or go with a partner with a better memory, I note you have acquired two for the price of one]. I guess your idea is not that a folding bike makes it quick and simple to hop on and off trains [a la tammytroot] but that it makes it possible to do so without protracted bookings subject to vagaries of cancellations etc. I think this is a way round our at times erratic rail service. Sometimes brilliant - plenty of space in caboose, staff happy to let you on, not bothering to check if you have booked etc, other times only two spaces on entire train, no negotiation catch next train etc. I look forward to posts of your adventures.

The only query you didn't answer yourself, or others haven't mentioned being the water bottle bosses

With my son's bike I attached a rather fetching bottle cage acquired in Halfords (as part of my haggling when buying child's bike). The bike had no bosses and I used cable ties / zip ties. Eventually they stretch and the set up works loose which might be risky at full pelt, so not an ideal solution for water.

EBC claim this works like a zip tie without slackening

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f_ProductID=3657&f_FullProductVersion=1&f_SupersetQRY=C173&f_SortOrderID=1&f_bct=c003154c003133c003197.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

@wee folding bike I was using Marathon/Marathon Plus at the wind farm and I use them over the winter on the road.

I have purchased some Schwalbe Marathons, so will be fitting them. I use Marathon Pluses on my 700c bike, they're superb tyres. Hopefully the Marathons will serve the wee folder well... I've heard good things about the Kojak tyres but slightly concerned they're not as robust as Marathons?

Posted 13 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

I've not had any trouble with Kojaks yet but they don't go out in the winter and haven't done more than a few hundred miles yet.

349mm Marathon Plus can be entertaining to fit. Ordinary Marathon is much easier.

Posted 13 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

crvr "I've heard good things about the Kojak tyres but slightly concerned they're not as robust as Marathons? "

I think they're pretty good - they run fast certainly and offer some suspension. Used them on recliner trip to Amsterdam with luggage. Mind you the Dutch paths aren't 50/50 glass/tarmac. But also used a lot here and had no problem.

However.. today I had Kojaks on my Alize trike and got a big shard of glass and a loss of air. That sticky rubber does collect stuff so if you run kojaks you need to look at the surface often. Another demo bike has Marathon Racers which had a glass incursion last week. Both cases I could find the offending item from the tread of tyre - which proves that if you have a sudden hole in a Schwalbe it's something big.

Posted 13 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Fitted the Marathons to the wee Raleigh folder this afternoon. Did two short test rides, one unladen and one pulling the carry freedom trailer with about 15kg load on it.

I observed that compared to the low pressure stock tyres, the higher pressure Marathons roll faster on tarmac, and thus the bike felt quite a bit speedier. This is very welcome. However, the down side was a somewhat harsher ride. I had the tyres at around 80psi each, and if I continue to run them at that pressure or above (max 85psi) I certainly think I'll need a comfier saddle than the stock one!

Will upgrade the saddle before I try a longer test ride on this machine...

Posted 13 years ago #

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