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Dear Bayerische Motoren Werke AG

(44 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Greenroofer
  • Latest reply from chdot

12

  1. Greenroofer
    Member

    Dear Sir

    What is it about the people who drive your cars?

    I was here today at about 17:00, heading south.

    As I slowed to approach the bridge and give way to the oncoming traffic, one of your 3-series models tried to overtake me. I was occupying the 'primary position' on the road, so he was forced to cross the central white line to do this. Shortly after this, he realised the the oncoming traffic really was actually oncoming, so he cut sharply back in front of me, and came extremely close to clipping my front wheel.

    We stopped to allow the oncoming traffic to clear the bridge. As we restarted, I continued to occupy the primary position on the road and became aware of a car very close behind me attempting to squeeze past me on the bridge. In this case it was an old model of your 5-series range. He was unable to pass on the bridge, due to my assertive position on the road. As we cleared the bridge he overtook me. Again, as I was occupying the primary position through a difficult bend and junction, he crossed the centre of the road. In this case, it was on a blind corner, and he went round this blind corner on the wrong side of the road simply so he could overtake me. He was followed close behind by a Mercedes Z3 convertible doing the same thing.

    So, I respectfully request that you stop doing whatever it is you do to your cars that makes people drive them like suicidal idiots. I don't mind them killing themselves by their stupidity, but I'd rather they didn't take anyone else with them. Particularly me.

    Yours etc

    (P.S. @SRD Conscious that this incident wasn't as serious as you First Bus one, so I hope you'll excuse the reuse of your title.)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    I note there was also a Mercedes Benz in the list of shame.

    Audi drivers, though less common in these parts, are just as bad...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. Nelly
    Member

    Now, now Greenroofer !

    I appreciate you are a tad annoyed - rightly so - but can I suggest that this thread may be a little scattergun in approach?

    Daft road sense and lack of manners is not confined to BMW drivers, any more so than to drivers of white vans, or First bus drivers.

    Afraid this comes across as the equivalent of a Taxi driver suggesting that "All cyclists ride without lights, through the red, on the pavement etc etc etc".

    p.s. It is also quite possible that a member of this forum - when not cycling - may drive one of those type of cars !

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. Greenroofer
    Member

    @ Nelly. A very fair point. I know that one member of this forum owns a Mini Cooper (without a bike rack). Assuming that it's relatively new, then it's a BMW... I assume (noting his comments about why he's not taking a hire car on holiday) that it will be driven with enthusiasm. I am sure that it will be driven with extreme consideration for cyclists.

    It was obviously wrong to imply that all BMW drivers are suicidal nutters. I think it's probably fair to say, though, that BMWs feature more heavily amongst the complained-against marques on this forum than (say) Skodas or Kias.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. alibali
    Member

    In fairness to BMW, they do try to deal with this. The Owners Manual for my 1977 E30 had a whole chapter advising patience and caution since, after all the owner had the ultimate driving machine and could afford to wait for a safe opportunity to pass, for example. Not sure if the modern ones have that too but I can't remeber the last BMW ad that featured their cars moving other than slowly (or walking pace in the current one).

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "... enthusiasm. I am sure that it will be driven with extreme consideration for cyclists."

    Nope. It will be driven with consideration for everyone (which on Skye and Harris includes Sheep). Enthusiasm doesn't always = reckless.

    Though I have to agree Beemers and Mercs and the like seem to make up a higher proportion of daftness on the roads. Mind you, this morning's two idiotic moments were courtesy of a Honda Jazz and VW Polo...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    (P.S. @SRD Conscious that this incident wasn't as serious as you First Bus one, so I hope you'll excuse the reuse of your title.)

    You know what they say about imitation! Indeed, I believe I was myself merely 'borrowing' from other forumers.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. gembo
    Member

    Some factors on identification of daft driving by brand need to be considered -

    is a BMW more distinctive? For example we would say Ford Focus/Escort/Mondeo/Ka rather than Ford. We just say BMW not Series 3 or 5 [is that how they are distinguished?]. Greenroofer did cite Series 3 and 5 but I don't know the difference. I recognise the very old ones and then the new ones

    If more distinctive does that lead us to remember more instances of daft driving rather than safe driving from this brand? Given this thread we are all probably on the lookout for it

    A bit like pringle jumpers moving from golfers to casuals it is the gangsta's choice, this might be a factor or not

    Is there an element of negativity within ourselves that we project on to this expensive vehicle more than say a porsche? [this marque doesn't seem to pick up so much criticism maybe less of them around?]

    I had one hairy ride heading west out of city centre on Thurs about 6pm - along cowgate - much madness from vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians, was like the festival had started early. With all the mayhem I am unable to report how many BMWs were involved.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo I had one hairy ride heading west out of city centre on Thurs about 6pm - along cowgate

    I try to avoid the Cowgate whenever possible. It's dark, narrow and been used by cars as a rat run as long as I can remember: I've been cycling in Edinburgh for 20 years on and off.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. wingpig
    Member

    It's perhaps something more to do with the attitude and character which would drive someone to buy a particular type of car being common to many who choose to drive that particular type of car, resulting in lots of people with the same type of car having the same attitudes, also expressed through their driving style and interpretations of road traffic laws.

    Some vehicle manufacturers' sigils are easier to ID than others; some I know, some I don't. There are approximately three specific models of car (excluding the obvious taxis, minis and Smarts) I can readily identify through morphology alone.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. wee folding bike
    Member

    Big old square Volvos? I can spot them from far away. Once I even spotted a self imported 244 in Byre's Rd because it sounded wrong. They never sold diesel 240s in the UK.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. gembo
    Member

    Total fecking ,mental driving on Lanark Road at Juniper green today. Nut job overtook the bus by accelerating into oncoming traffic on wrong side of road then cutting in immediately in front of bus just missing car in front of bus as all stopping at red light at pedestrian crossing. Oh yeah, it was a BMW with a spoiler on the boot. There was another BMW behind the bus that was driving sensibly.

    Is our thesis more nutjobs buy BMWs? (If you add a-holes, tubes, ganstas etc together then the Beemer comes out the most dangerous?) I still think there is an element of projection from US onto the BMW 'type'. I know some lovely, sensible people who drive BMWs too.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. Greenroofer
    Member

    Here's a thought...

    Assume there's two types of bad driving: 'accidental' bad driving and 'deliberate' bad driving.

    Accidental bad driving is where the driver isn't really paying attention because they are (for example) incompetent or distracted. Accidental bad driving is the cause of most SMIDSY, car door opening, not indicating etc etc. I would have thought accidental bad drivers are found in all sections of the driver population, so all cars are equally likely to have an accidental bad driver in them.

    Deliberate bad driving (which is the kind that prompted this post) arises from people who have an over-inflated perception of their abilities (and/or their car's abilities). I would expect the majority of deliberate bad drivers to be male. I would also expect them to favour particular kinds of car. BMW's would be one kind, Corsas with fat exhausts would be another. I think this is Gembo's point above.

    It could therefore be possible that certain kinds of car are more likely to display bad driving because they may contain two kinds of bad driver, rather than just one.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Yep, I'm with Greenroofer and Gembo on this one.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. Nelly
    Member

    So by the same rationale all convertibles must be hairdressers cars, all honda civics are driven by pensioners, all 4x4s by women taking their kids to private school ??

    Our current family cars are a BMW 3 series and a Golf.

    Do my driving abilities and attitudes change when I swap cars with my wife for child pickups etc?

    Perhaps I endanger my son when he is in my car, but suddenly morph into captain sensible when in the golf ????

    I dont think so, but am interested in how the collective anti beemer brigade would deal with this conundrum?

    Perhaps I should also foster some resentment toward sierra drivers - or women drivers - as it was this combo that gave me injuries and wrote off my kadett in the 80s?

    But I dont - that would be tarring everyone with the same brush........

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. recombodna
    Member

    ...not may sierra drivers on the road these days eh?

    Had a guy in a renault yesterday show his anger at me cycling at 25mph in the middle of my lane by flying past me at about 50 in a 30 an inch from my handle bars.Then giving me a load of flanel about the rules of the road when sitting at the lights. I feel sorry for him. Imagine being that much of an @***?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. wee folding bike
    Member

    What kind of Kadet?

    I had a R reg Chevette. It was awful.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Nelly, from Greenroofer

    "It could therefore be possible that certain kinds of car are more likely to display bad driving because they may contain two kinds of bad driver, rather than just one."

    The 'may' is important. It's a suggestion for why certain brands of car may stick in our minds more, or seem to be seen doing daft things more, rather than an, "all Beemer drivers are eejits" statement.

    The point was, most certainly, that it is the driver to blame, and not that someone changes depending on which car they happen to drive. There are idiots in all forms of transport, and idiots in all marques of car, it's just it seems there are more (more, not all) idiots in certain marques.

    We need some scientific research into this!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    For what it's worth, as an Englishman, a cyclist, a lawyer, and a Mini driver, I'm used to having a heck of a lot of sweeping statements directed my way... ;)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    you forgot "mountain biker" :)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    @anth at work - it's fine being a lawyer these days. 'Target' group is now bankers.

    (The ones that have chauffeurs...)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. Dave
    Member

    "Our current family cars are a BMW 3 series and a Golf.

    Do my driving abilities and attitudes change when I swap cars with my wife for child pickups etc?

    No - but compared with someone who owns a Golf and a Volvo it would be expected that your driving behaviour would be worse driving either car?

    Two obvious examples we can probably all relate to - taxis and bus drivers. We've all experienced courtesy from taxis and dangerous antics from bus drivers, but by and large I'd rather find myself holding up a bus than a taxi!

    Not only that, but I don't think it's much of a leap to say I'd rather be holding up an off-duty bus driver than an off-duty taxi driver.

    All that is required is to think about aggressive drivers in general rather than yourself. Are aggressive drivers likely to prefer certain types of car over, say, VW camper vans, hybrids or whatever? Sure, some camper van drivers might be nutters but think about the nutter in isolation, trying to decide what car to buy.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. Greenroofer
    Member

    @anth at work - Scientific research is needed. The key data we need is how many of each make/model of car is on the road. Immediately we'd then know whether the reason that some* drivers of certain marques are a perceived problem is simply that there's more of that kind of car on the road. I found data last night from SMMT for new registrations in 2010, but that's not the whole story. I couldn't find the complete breakdown for registered vehicles.

    Interestingly, though, BMW 3-series are well up the list of most-frequently registered cars last year. Although perceived as a 'prestige' marque, there's a lot of them produced every year.

    * for the avoidance of doubt, I fully recognise and accept that not all [insert marque here] drivers are [insert generalisation here]. My thesis is simply that some marques encourage some people to overrate their abilities and take excessive risks that we, as cyclists and drivers, watch with dismay on the roads.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. mgj
    Member

    What has happened to the Allegro drivers who then bought Volvo 340 and more recently beige Rover 75s? The flat cap and car combination was a great help in identifying road users to be avoided in the 80s/90s

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. Smudge
    Member

    HEY, leave off the flat caps :-p ;-))
    Mine kept my head at a comfortable temp, mostly dry and kept the rain out of my eyes this morning. Top cycling headwear for the fully waterproofed up gentle progress type of ride!
    (It's ok though, I have never owned an allegro or a 3 box volvo or indeed a Rover 75, though I must confess my first mini was BL Beige)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. Nelly
    Member

    Wee Folding Bike - it was a mustard yellow one - cant remember the model, but like this one if image comes thru -

    mustard kadett

    Front end concertina'd and everything exploded out the dash on impact !!

    Not like these modern safe bmw's...... ;)

    Greenroofer - correct, diesel 3 series is no 4 in the charts - more registered per annum than ford mondeos.

    Some of us clearly wont agree about this subject, thats life, debate is healthy !!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    The extreme gusts of wind finally claimed my flat cap this afternoon, wrenching it from my head and whisking it a 100 yards away, over a wall onto an adjacent road. Bit of a b*gger as I was towing a cycle trailer full of shopping, had to do a swift left turn downhill to retrieve the blighter. The (capless) uphill with 40+ kg of shopping and gusty headwinds was great fun!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  28. wee folding bike
    Member

    That's a FWD Kadet. My Chevette was an older RWD model.

    The only car I ever did over a ton in was a Volvo 345. I suspect that's unusual for the 1.4 l version.

    The last time I bought a car, November 2004, I left one dealer saying that they didn't have anything big, old and cheap enough.

    I've never had a flat cap but I should have put the Lowe Alpine hat on this afternoon. I've got hair grit because of the wind. The hat was a bit wet from the morning so I didn't bother wearing it on the way home.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    I think I said that I kbnew some civil and responsible BMW drivers [that was before the Juniper Green outrage]. I was swayed by Greenroofer's logic on why BMW would have both accidental and intentionally bad drivers. Obviously, no empirical evidence as I nthink iw as also trying to point out that seeking out our prejudices to have them confirmed is not scientific and Karl Popper would urge us all to try to destroy our hypothesis. Thus, if it hadn't been for the Juni Green outrage and the wind I would have set off today looking for polite BMW drivers.

    I have a flat cap, a Kangol, in has a stud at the front to open it up a bit more into a Gilbert O'Sullivan/Hovis boy number. Quite natty. Used in school plays about WW2 a fair bit. Much dust flying around on way back from town this pm [along with trees, bin lids etc] Time of year for dust/grit? Rigg Race above Balerno cancelled tonight due to wind and trees falling.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  30. wee folding bike
    Member

    Perhaps it's not grit, could be Icelandic ash again.

    I saw a gully cleaning lorry this morning but, in the heavier grit deposits, it was just moving it around.

    Posted 13 years ago #

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