At great risk of being ostrich sized..................
On the occasions that the european laws state I cant work, (lorry drivin )I give my wife a break, I take her to and from her work,in the gyle financial sector. So, why , when I am driving along the Ingleston road from the M9 to the gyle do cyclists travel on the road !!! there are ped/cycle shared "pavements" on both sides of the road ! Buses, wagons and half awake commuters.... I know where I would go ! many are on the paths but there is always one or two who have to slow down the traffic !always sitting too far out in the road, its rush hour !(wrong name !)Am I missing something,are the paths suspect to snipers, strewn with carpet tacks,fenced off so you end up in queensferry or even worse, leith ! only joking !
Is it just the Ive got as much right to be here as everyone else brigade ?
If so, your not making any friends !!!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
selfish cyclists
(32 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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I use the path on the north side of that road quite regularly, going eastward. The wide, smooth section between Ratho Station and Ingliston is indeed a joy, especially with a following wind.
However, the start of it (whether you've just come along the path from Kirkliston, over the bridge from Broxburn, or over the footbridge at Ratho Station) is no more and no less than a completely bog-standard pavement, with all the attendant hazards. Bus stops, wheelie bins, people (not unreasonably) getting in and out of cars and houses are regular features. The road is *almost* desirable by comparison, and certainly quicker.
At the Ingliston end, after crossing a couple of slightly sketchy blind junctions and a narrow, root-riven secteur by Ingliston, the path deposits you unceremoniously onto the roundabout serving the airport. If you want to continue eastbound, it's a faff with at least one more sketchy crossing to deal with.
Despite all that, I still use the path rather than the road. One windy morning I was hoovering along at 25mph on the smooth bit when a bloke on a TT bike (rear disc and all) rumbled past me on the road. He was most emphatically "taking the lane" but still seemed *very* exposed to traffic going by at 60mph...
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hi Splitshift.
The easy answer is to try cycling those "paths"... Particularly on a bike without low pressure, wide tyres and/or suspension...
I don't go that way if I can avoid it at all, but on the occasions I do, I take the road. And don't enjoy it, but feel it's safer than the pavement option.
The pavement option means;
* Walking or cycling across the entry and exit to the bypass, with no lights to help you and unable to see the car signals.
* Blind, narrow corners with tall fences around RBS at Gogarburn.
* A completely blind corner on Gogarstone Road where you can't see cars exiting the A8 at speed as the corner has a long slip lane for cars.
* Having to negotiate down the ramp into the airport access roundabout, which has had near permanent roadworks for a long time, I think to do with Scottish Water.
* A number of bus stops in "the path".
* A bridge with steep steps (no wheel rail for bikes) at both ends in Ratho Station.
* Cars often parked in the path between in "laybys" (actually old access roads into the fields) between Norton House and Ratho Station.
* The pavement surface is poor in many places and often covered in slimy leaf mulch.
* A lot of vegetation intrudes into the path. This is the same vegetation that provides all the mulch.
* A number of signs and lamp posts in the middle of the "path"I could go on, there are many more deficiencies with this "path". Basically, it's not a path at all. It's a bit of pavement alongside a main road that has been legislated as a cycle route, had a few blue signs stuck up and that's that. There's been precious little, or no, invesment in any infrastructure to connect it to the other paths (the one up to Edinburgh Park Station, the Canal, the railway path at Ratho, the A89 cycle lane)
This guy has taken a good set of pictures pointing out the serious deficiencies of this "path".
That's a start. Also, I don't think anyone is cycling that road because they like it or want to make friends. Basically there's very little other option for getting from Newbridge to South Gyle - the airport is in the way and blocks all access from the North and West, the M8 also helps to do that as does the bypass. The rights of ways under the bypass have not been connected to any cycling infrastructure.
It's a 2 lane road. Plenty of room for passing. It also has a 40 mph restriction along a lot of it that is not observed unless forced to by traffic.
There's nothing "selfish" with cycling here, it's not bikes that are the problem here at rush hour, slowing cars down - it's far too many cars trying to pile into South Gyle and Town and Gogarburn that are.
I used to work out of Gogarburn and cycle the section of road from the Gogar Roundabout as far as the RBS bridge. There was never a day when I didn't zoom down long queues of cars going nowhere. If tailwinds helped I would nip through the underpass (30mph limit and contraflow) and still have impatient drivers trying to squeeze me out of the way.
Posted 12 years ago # -
oh well , local knowledge wins !I wasnt looking for a fight ! far too many cars ??? surely, again not looking for a fight, surely the cars have as much right as well ! (drivers obviously )or is the revolution not going to be motorised, cause the cyclists are in charge ? and yes i will try and ride it, not much I couldnt ride, but certainly stuff I didnt feel like riding !40 mph isnt observed....... I do, and when another vehicle does so as well two lanes and an errant cyclist dont make good bed fellows !
Posted 12 years ago # -
Personally I always use the path when along that way. It's not great, but I've seen worse. I can see how cyclists on faster bikes with narrower tyres would prefer the road though. Frankly we have every right to use the road, it's not a motorway and cycling is not prohibited.
The problem with the path being a bit crap is that drivers clearly expect cyclists to use it, otherwise we would not be labelled "selfish" (?) for not using the path! Let's be clear, cyclists are not selfish for using the road, we are there by right.
Posted 12 years ago # -
If the path was a better option than the road, people would use it - that's the simple truth.
I can't imagine anyone's daily routine involves inconveniencing themselves for the sake of annoying a few motorists. More likely they don't want to inconvenience themselves for the sake of annoying a few motorists a bit less (because they probably still look at the cyclists on the pavement and think, "bah, no road fund tax!" etc.)
Consider that bit just off the A90 on the way to Dalmeny, recently reported on favourably by yours truly. I commuted that road for years, and I never rode on the pavement (sorry, "shared use facility") for one day of it. More, I hardly ever saw other people cycling on it either - maybe 1:20 did, or less.
Yet now it's been redone, I can't imagine *not* riding on it, and though I don't commute that way any more, I bet almost all the people cycling through are using it.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@splitshift:
I do, and when another vehicle does so as well two lanes and an errant cyclist dont make good bed fellows !
I don't think there is anything errant about the cyclist at all (perhaps brave / foolhardy, but thats more to do with the motorised transport rather than the cyclist).
I've cycled along the cyclepath there once and wouldn't do it again. There are far too many obstacles such as blind corners, stepped bridges, junctions, bus shelters et al... I wouldn't cycle along the road there either tho' :)
Posted 12 years ago # -
I don't use that particular commute, though I know drivers who do.
I can understand both points of view, however ultimately i have to think, if I were in a car/truck, and I had the choice of a slightly inconvenient, slower(and potentially damaging to my vehicle, punctures count!) route which is quiet, or a busy, clear route which may cause other drivers to have to overtake me and briefly inconenience them, which would I choose? I have the same right to use the road, (and have paid the same taxes), whether I'm on a bicycle, motorcycle, car, van or artic, so it's purely down to my own feeling on which is better/safer and which do I prefer?Yes it's a pain in the car having to lift my right foot, look for a gap, maybe change gear, pull out, accelerate, pull back in... but it's not that much of a pain, and the time lost is normally nothing compared to the time percieved to be lost... the traffic on that route is over capacity anyway a few bicycles do very little to change it imho. Just gives people a source to blame for their frustration rather than the usual "phantom" jams.Edited to add - No offence meant, not and argument, imho, and I'm sure you're not ostrich-sized ;-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Personally I doubt I'd ever ride that bit of road. Too exciting for me*.
However it could be possible for a cyclist to make the following argument:
"Why are cars not using the parrallel cars-only M8, put in at great expense. Surely the A8 should be used for local access only?"*Thanks to Chdot I am now in possesion of a much more relaxed route between the Gyle and Newbridge, the only downsides being a near vertical flight of narrow steps and having to cycle through a turnip field. (A nice little route actually, despite my sarcasm. And I think it was probably wheat, not turnips).
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I am now in possesion of a much more relaxed route between the Gyle and Newbridge"
Yeah it's nice - not sure how much longer it takes. I took someone along who found the grit on the section at Roddinglaw was a bit much for narrow tyres.
"the only downsides being a near vertical flight of narrow steps"
Presume you mean at Norton House Hotel. Have you tried to keep going (parallel to the railway) instead of going down the steps?
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Have you tried to keep going (parallel to the railway) instead of going down the steps?"
No. Have only done this route once when I left you and Kaputnik quaffing tea and munching scones at Norton House.
But just looked at the map and continuing on looks like a really good option as it would dodge the hill on the Newbridge-Ratho road.Posted 12 years ago # -
.....you mean the hill that keeps on giving?....
Posted 12 years ago # -
This is my daily route, it's no fun!
The cycle path is so badly signposted that many pedestrians dispute whether it is a cycle path.
The path is presently so obstructed between the airport and the RBS with windfallen timber that there is not room to pass pedestrians, and the peds are really grumping about that.
Sections are so rough, strewn with glass, or broken up by tree roots as to be a problem for road bike tyres.
The whole experience of using it is cyclist-as-third-class-citizen. You have to stop and give way to cars at every junction, to pedestrians, dogs...
Whereas on the road you have right-of-way and can zip along at 20mph without obstruction.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Posted 12 years ago #
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Dodging a pot-hole on that route my front wheel slipped out on some leaves which were hiding a green, slimy surface and I fell and cut open my leg. At the car-rental place where I was going to pick up my parents' car they couldn't offer as much as a wet wipe for the blood. So +1 here for a strong dislike of that path.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Experience the route here."
Heh heh that's great. Goes right past my old house. The wee cottage on the corner of gogarstone road. Back in the days when you could wander round the old abandoned hospital.......mwah ha ha ha!!
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Experience the route here."
Just shows how lousy a "facility" it is. It's not a cyclepath, but a pavement that you're allowed to cycle on. Loads of streetlights, bus stops, peds to catch your bars on, interrupted by junctions, conflict with peds, and it doesn't look wide enough for two bikes with hybrid style bars to pass.
Ultimately shared use is no use if you want people to use bikes as an efficient means of transport rather than a means of pootling about enjoying the fresh air and sun*.
*Today only
Posted 12 years ago # -
What's the solution to this poor bit of path?
I think a new dedicated bit of path running next to the new (still to be built) tramline and linking into the park-and-ride at Ingliston and from there to the existing pretty-good-already path on the north side of the road.
A new path around the back of the houses at Ratho Station (to dodge the narrow pavement) would be ideal, but not sure if there is space for this or how feasible this would be. That would probably involve taking land away from the airport. Would that ever happen?Posted 12 years ago # -
Blimey, I thought these references *were* to the north side of the road, west of the airport (which I recently had cause to walk along and thought it would be terrible to cycle - low branches and excessively narrow).
I don't even want to think what the rest must be like. Thankfully (for once) no flickr at work.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"...the existing pretty-good-already path on the north side of the road."
Assume you mean the sections eastwards of the RBS bridge.
Even though the bit around the Gyle roundabout is currently a gravel-trap it's still the most useful bit of the path (if heading east), circumventing several light-controlled delays and the aggressive driving usually associated with large light-controlled roundabouts on roads people mistakenly believe to have higher speed limits than is actually the case. Unfortunate that when heading west from south of Glasgow Road that the same path is such a pain to get to.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Assume you mean the sections eastwards of the RBS bridge."
No, I was actually referring to the bit west of the airport (that Dave was slagging!) I've not actually been on this bit but have seen it from the car, and the *new* bit looks pretty good I thought.
"Unfortunate that when heading west from south of Glasgow Road that the same path is such a pain to get to. "
A tunnel next to the tram line would be a great idea! Ah...
Posted 12 years ago # -
I'll be on a cycle path in the summer crossing the isle of Wight but other than that I can't think of a place where I don't use the road. I use the cycle path on IoW because it goes where I need to go and I don't need to find the way.
I cycled from Waverley to a hotel at Edinburgh Airport 2 years ago. I'm quite happy to use the underpass at the roundabout. I used to cycle into Edinburgh from Cumbernaild along that road using a trike. I'll be going to the Marriot soon but I only need to get from Edinburgh Park. I don't have time to cycle from Airdrie.
The off road alternative looks more complex, has bad sight lines and random peds.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Breaking news -
"We've programmed in an upgrade of the A8 route this year that aims to address many of the issues that Kaputnik raises."
Posted 12 years ago # -
Good. More of my issues need to be addressed.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"More of my issues need to be addressed."
Not sure this is the place.
Then again...
Posted 12 years ago # -
Is that not a new category >> Kaputnik's Issues. :P
I do this section of road nearly every day, go from tramworks over rbs bridge then onward to the airport 8 roundabout then down the other side to my office in ingliston, or straight ahead if I'm wanting a pasty from the airport.
It's a complete faff basically.
But don't go on the road as it's a slight incline the whole way and I find it a bit of a slog, particuarly since I'm going a lot slower than the cars.
On the way home I just go straight down the road from the airport roundabout, it's downhill and invairably there's a tailwind so I'm going about 35mph for a lot of it and not actually really getting in anyone's way. They are just rushing to join the queue at the gogar roundabout. Cars going east I can usually keep pace with till western corner, or even murrayfield if the traffic is bad.
Do get a few close passes though, but it shaves a good five minutes off my commute, which brings it almost identical to the car commute at 42 mins. Yay.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Bout a year ago, I had an accident on the bend at RBS with another cyclist. I ended up with 3 cracked ribs. I've cycled the road ever since!
Posted 12 years ago # -
It is a dreadful path.
My favourite feature is the signposted direct route that involves dashing across six lanes of the bypass, just south of the Gogarburn roundabout:
You can just make out the cycle path signs by the tree on the left hand side of the image.
It's unbelievable that anyone could come up with this as a cycle route, although it can be avoided by using the tunnel paths under the bypass or the path to the north of the roundabout.Posted 12 years ago # -
@kcr my favourite bit is that the "crossing" is about 30 feet behind the stop lights for traffic coming off the bypass - you have to wait for a complete gap across all lanes (unlikely) or traffic to come to a complete stop in all lanes - by which time the light sequence changes back to green. It also means that when you do get a chance to cross you have to try and negotiate around tightly packed cars queuing at the lights. Oh, and when you are coming west - east, it's very difficult to see what's coming off the bypass in all lanes thanks to the sightlines (or lack of)
Posted 12 years ago #
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