CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Contraflow Issues

(33 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from chdot

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  1. There's a short contraflow I use to get to work, for the use of buses and cycles only. I'd expected any issues might be with drivers coming the other way, not thinking I was supposed to be going that way, but so far not a sniff of a problem with that.

    Instead, heading along there yesterday there was a car pullnig out of an alley way ahead. I watched the driver stare and stare and stare in exactly the opposite direction to where I was coming from, i.e. the direction of all of the other traffic, clearly not thinking anything at all would be coing from my direction.

    She's lucky I wasn't a bus. Seriously considering an airzound... >:)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I think I went the "way you go to work" from the City Chambers to Fountainbridge. Never been that way before and found it rather confusing!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. Min
    Member

    I have this problem at a supermarket car park exit I have to pass. It is actually a perfectly normal two way road but for some reason, so many drivers only ever look left before pulling out.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. LaidBack
    Member

    Instead, heading along there yesterday there was a car pullnig out of an alley way ahead.
    Sounds like Bread Street. The bus lane there is rarely used now so bikes are the only contraflow item.

    The white line is unbroken so drivers should know but of course they probably think it's another example of cyclists flouting the law. Lots of parked cars all pointing the other way also make drivers think it is a strict one way street.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Airzound for the win!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    A response from CEC -

    "
    useful to know about. We've no recorded accidents on that street.

    There aren't any scheduled buses using that but some coaches from Johnstone Terrace may use it. The flow on the lane is very low - the main issue is probably drivers thinking that cyclists shouldn't be going the other way.
    "

    Hadn't noticed that LB didn't go that way anymore!

    That contraflow was an early Spokes success. I suspect most people turn left into Bread Street and right onto East Fountainbridge - though traffic from West Port doesn't always Give Way like it should.

    Might be interesting to time both options.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. LaidBack
    Member

    chdot Might be interesting to time both options.


    Both? There is a third way.

    Turn onto Bread St then left into Bread St Lane and right onto other street to get into bike advance.

    The lane route forms part of my grand wheelie bin tour of Edinburgh!

    The proposotion is:
    avoid Lothian Road and see many wheelie bins on way to Meadows.

    Also an interesting bit of non-connectivity on E. Fountainbridge to Riego St.

    Sometimes that one way street is empty and a traffic offence beckons.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    "left into Bread St Lane"

    Nah, cobbles.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. SRD
    Moderator

    no wonder I got so confused last year trying to get from work to chop chop!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. LaidBack
    Member

    chdot Nah, cobbles.

    Ok on a Mouton surely? More worrying is the broken glass.

    SRD from work to chop chop!

    Interesting phrase. Can you elaborate?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. ruggtomcat
    Member

    chop chop is a Chinese restaurant...

    http://twitter.com/eatatchopchop

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. LaidBack
    Member

    Ah... I thought it might be. How's Germany today?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    a very good and family friendly chinese retaurant (free dumplings for kids). and they give you (quite generous) money off vouchers on your birthday and anniversaries.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Also first (and only) Chinese restaurant I've been in that has turnip, potato and lamb dishes on menu!

    I've never been to China.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. "Might be interesting to time both options."

    I'll try that next week (probably not on the bike tomorrow, and not at work on Friday).

    On the restaurant review (these threads really do take on a life of their own don't they?) we used to go to Chop Chop LOADS, the dumplings really are good, but there are some other superb dishes (the garlic with cumin is particular excellent) but the service can sometimes be astonishingly slow and it really started putting us off...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Have to admit, I had no idea the contraflow on Bread St even existed. I've always gone left and then right for East Fountainbridge, though I've walked through Bread St Lane once or twice.

    Riego St would be useful if it connected with anywhere beyond that didn't involve dismounting or crossing up to three lanes of traffic.

    Pine Garden for me.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. LaidBack
    Member

    ArellcatRiego St would be useful if it connected with anywhere beyond

    Well it does connect a back route to Meadows. Go round by Job Office at High Riggs and over into Meadows on Lauriston St and Lauriston Gardens.

    Good selection of random cobbling but fairly safe as a return to Argyle Place avoiding Tollcross.

    I think I should lead an LB Via Obscura tour. Obscure routes for obscure bikes. Anyone interested?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    Was going to start a contraflow thread, then I found this one.

    Nothing much happened in 11 years??

    My bold

    Question (1)

    Which streets will see the installation of signage for contraflow cycling on one-way streets (as per Council policy) between now and the end of the 2023?

    Answer (1)

    Contraflow cycling on the following one-way streets is being delivered as part of the Leith Connections project:

    • Burgess Street;

    • Maritime Lane;

    • Tolbooth Wynd; and

    • Water Street

    In addition, three further streets have just had contraflow cycling permitted as part of traffic management associated with the Kings Theatre redevelopment.

    • Leven Terrace;

    • Valleyfield Street; and

    • Glengyle Terrace.

    Officers are aware of the concerns that have been raised by various parties with respect to the changes on Glengyle Terrace. In order to allow us to better understand the operation of the new road layout and priority changes, officers have commissioned a video survey that will take place this week.

    The survey will help to inform the development of any adjustments (if needed) to the current layouts.

    Design work is underway on over 50 streets which are proposed to have contraflow cycling installed from August 2024.

    Information will be provided to Committee and local ward Councillors at the appropriate time.

    Question (2)

    What metrics are used to determine which streets are suitable for the implementation of contraflow cycling signage? Item no 10.12

    Answer (2)

    Criteria considered include traffic flow and speed, road width and clear road width; cycle flows and parking and loading.

    Question (3)

    Is Cockburn Street part of the implementation plan? If not, why not?

    Answer (3)

    Contraflow cycling is not currently permitted on Cockburn Street. This will be considered as part of the current design work ongoing on Old Town Streets through the City Centre Transformation project

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    Just a reminder of what’s happening in Glengyle (video).

    https://twitter.com/cyclingedin/status/1658911033459605504

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Playing devil's advocate - is contraflow in Glengyle Crescent really that useful? Does it facilitate anything that non-salmoning along Valleyfield doesn't? It appears that it's never going to work there without parking removal and/or cutting the rat run (or neutron bombing Edinburgh's drivers), which will lead to Arthurian consultation hell (the parking I mean, not the neutron bombing...).

    It's not the hill I'd want the many other useful contraflows which would be easily implementable to die on.

    (Or otherwise, the space between the 2 lines of trees on the north edge of Bruntsfield Links/Glengyle St appears tailormade for a shared type path, possibly continuable into Leven Terrace - there's already a desire-line trodden path)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Tend to agree. I was surprised that Glengyle Crescent was chosen for cycle contraflow because it's just not that useful a route. To get to and from Bruntsfield Links there is already Valleyfield, Leven Terrace and Leamington Walk, and to get to and from the Meadows, you have Valleyfield plus the annoyingly narrow stub of North Meadow Walk and again, the entirety of Leamington Walk.

    The right turn northbound into Glengyle Terrace is no more easy than into Valleyfield, and Glengyle doesn't offer any significant advantage to northbound cycling because you'd already be using Leamington Walk or Valleyfield.

    I would have preferred efforts concentrate on widening the NMW stub to make it less of a bottleneck.

    Of course, the elephant in the room, that everyone can see perfectly well, is MOAR CARS! CARS GOOD!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. neddie
    Member

    is contraflow in Glengyle Crescent really that useful?

    Valleyfield St isn't any wider than Glengyle Tce, so any arguments made about Glengyle "never going to work" could equally be applied to Valleyfield - resulting in the whole scheme being ripped out. Is that what you want?

    Also, would we even be having a conversation about whether a street was "useful" or not if it were cars?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. cb
    Member

    I could convceivably see myself doing either:

    Whitehouse Loan > Wright's Houses (via the wee cut through path) > Glengyle

    or

    Whitehouse Loan > Leamington Walk > one of the 'non-cycle-paths' > corner of Glengyle

    Would allow me to avoid the A702 entirely.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    My perception has always been Valleyfield St is wider - to me this looks rideable in face of an advancing vehicle while this looks less so.

    "would we even be having a conversation about whether a street was "useful" or not if it were cars?" Fair point, although perhaps we are beginning to do so with LTNs etc (and of course we see "keen drivists" vowing to scream and scream until they are sick)

    Basically, I just don't want CEC to back off from implementation of further much-needed contraflows elsewhere because of perceived issues over one marginally useful case.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @cb agree, allowing legal cycling across Bruntsfield Links down to Leven Terrace and a link on- or off-road to existing/improved infra looks compelling

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. neddie
    Member

    No sign of any video survey being installed (as of yesterday)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    “My perception has always been Valleyfield St is wider“

    Yes.

    “Basically, I just don't want CEC to back off from implementation of further much-needed contraflows elsewhere because of perceived issues over one marginally useful case.“

    Yes.

    Don’t know what will happen about Glengyle.

    Eliminating the bulk of traffic by blocking the north end of Leven Terrace might be enough.

    If not the options seem to be parking on one side only on Glengyle or remove the contraflow on THAT street.

    In cycling terms that would be no great loss, but for ‘future plans’ there is the danger that CEC will become over-cautious, again.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    “No sign of any video survey being installed“

    Oh THAT sort of survey.

    I thought they’d just turn up and video traffic at key points/times.

    My video - completely random time when we were there (not ‘rush’ hour) - should be enough to show what problem is.

    (Solution above)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. boothym
    Member

    Presumably when the Canal to Meadows project is done fewer people will be using these contraflows? Although, the connection from Tarvit Place to the Meadows is supposed to split into a cycle track on each side of the road, so closing Leven Terrace would still be beneficial for junction safety.

    @cb agree, allowing legal cycling across Bruntsfield Links down to Leven Terrace and a link on- or off-road to existing/improved infra looks compelling
    Wouldn't all of these paths already be legal for (responsible) cycling as they are not adopted? Assuming there's no signs or other rules against it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. pringlis
    Member

    Wouldn't all of these paths already be legal for (responsible) cycling as they are not adopted? Assuming there's no signs or other rules against it.

    My understanding is that it's legal, but they are awfully narrow so I often avoid if I see there are people walking on them at the time. There was talk before about widening and putting up shared space appropriate signage, but I don't think anything came off it. See page 12 at https://www.dropbox.com/s/mt737vr8xakzil5/Final%20report.pdf

    Posted 1 year ago #

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