CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 14years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
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Fears about the impact of the proposed extension of the Gyle Shopping Centre in Edinburgh has prompted Fife Council to formally object to the plans.
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There was also real concern about the possibility for a marked increase in the number of people travelling over the Forth by car, rather than opting to use public transport.
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So they are against the new Forth bridge then??
So they are against the new Forth bridge then??
Hah. Methinks left handee not know what right handee doing.
People drive from Fife to got to Ocean Terminal, for gioodness' sake. Don't they have shops in Fife?
"People drive from Fife to got to Ocean Terminal, for gioodness' sake."
I really hope not many. As they don't have royal yachts in Fife, maybe it's just those few who have been gazing longingly at Britannia through their telescopes and want to walk around it. Maybe some of them also developed a taste for Baxter's soup when the hovercraft trial was running.
People come to Polwarth nearly new sale from Fife!
"Don't they have shops in Fife?"
That's the problem: People with cars don't just want "shops".
They want "destinations" and "experiences".
Though it's not just cars. Plenty of people went to the Metro Centre by train when that opened.
Shopping - especially in one big place (preferably with a roof) - has been the 'religion' for the last 20 years or so. Whether people are maxxed, cashed or consumered out in these austere times remains to be seen.
Then there's the Internet - that was supposed to kill 'bricks 'n' mortar'. Supermarkets have altered the face of the local 'high street' leaving holes and charity shops and cafés - and even mini-supermarkets - presumably to encourage brand loyalty for the weekly 'big shop'.
Of course it's all about money. Councils want to increase their business rate base. Edinburgh objected when Midlothian gave planning permission to IKEA etc. They thought (rightly of course) that it would increase traffic.
Midlothian has zoned the field just across the city boundary from the Fort for more sheds.
Such developments are regarded by some people as a 'good thing' perhaps part of 'sustainable growth' - though if people have fewer 'pounds in their pockets' I don't quite see how it works!
Perhaps Fife should have developed Inverkeithing or Rosyth as the ultimate shopping and seaside destinations when Edinburgh's council was building The Gyle (and Edinburgh Park).
They've obviously never been to the Gyle - the only people who shop there are people who work at Edinburgh Park / South Gyle, school kids, the retired , the unemployed and the unemployable.
The only direction for the Gyle to expand is either up, or into its own car park. Perhaps they'll do the latter as the car park seems mainly to be used as an overspill for Gyle office workers (observe in which direction it fills up during the day)
"Such developments are regarded by some people as a 'good thing' perhaps part of 'sustainable growth' - though if people have fewer 'pounds in their pockets' I don't quite see how it works!"
Ah, that is because you are supposed to spend money you don't have and get into debt because that is good for the economy and encourages growth and other such meaningless crap which is all about getting bankers even richer and nothing more.
"Ah, that is because you are supposed to spend money you don't have and get into debt"
Yes.
But I thought that was "the problem" - a lot of people now realise that they've has enough of borrowing - and/or banks have stopped raising their credit limits(?)
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Rivals wage war on plans for bigger Fort Kinnaird
But the plans have attracted a storm of protest from city centre retailers including John Lewis and the St James Centre, which fear that more trade will be taken away from the central Edinburgh.
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http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Rivals-wage-war-on-plans.6841354.jp
Ah, that is because you are supposed to spend money you don't have and get into debt
Which reminds me, I really need that N+1 carbon fibre road bike thingy. Where's my credit card?
:-)
That's the problem: People with cars don't just want "shops".
They want "destinations" and "experiences".
Exactly. They park the car, hubby takes the kids to the soft play area while wifey nips into Debenhams, GAP, etc. Then they all have a meal at Conran's restaurant and watch a movie at VUE.
It's a day 'out' with aircon and escalators. No need to freeze on Princes Street either.
You can see how some lots of folk might find that an appealing prospect. Hey, I've even done it myself (admittedly some time ago). I only live a mile away though and we go on bikes...
SRD, "People come to Polwarth nearly new sale from Fife! "
Aye.. once or twice now..
Crowriver, "Don't they have shops in Fife?"
Aye... In Dunfermline, Kirkaldy, and lots of out of town places.
chdot, "So they are against the new Forth bridge then??"
Unsure. My local MSP is a member of the Labour Party and she supports it, but I don't know the politics of Fife council.
chdot "Perhaps Fife should have developed Inverkeithing or Rosyth as the ultimate shopping and seaside destinations"
Well, there is room between the M90 and Rosyth but I don't know who owns the land and its probably been eyed up as a potential new Forth crossing for a few years. No, Inverkeithing and Rosyth are not good areas, as there is not enough land, its separated by motorway and its at the north end of the bridge(s) meaning the complain above in reverse.
They appear to be developing the area by Hillbeath junction, with cinema, some out of town shopping, and Dobbies. The housing is creeping up though eating up OOT shopping land and Amazon have just built on a huge tract or land.
The problem with Fife is its all a little disjointed, which means you have to drive to several places for the whole shopping experience.
We're going to Glasgow tomorrow and will be visiting the shopping centre Braehead, a huge long complex of shopping and hotels which which means driving from one end to the other.
I see a future where Mega complexes will have to lay on their own public transport systems and the first one to do so will generate lots of visitors for the novelty of some sort of tram/monorail [without the 70 kitch or 50's small gauge rail image].
Morrisons, Boots and M&S only shops left in Gyle, well maybe a Burtons and a River Island and a WH Smiths, well OK, but you know what I mean. Two picture framers have gone bust their.
I was mistaken for the developer of the Gyle on our Xmas night out 1992 in the Oxford Bar by a couple of chaps who wanted a shop.
I was government research bod in prisons at the time. Prison HQ was at the gyle but that was the only connection, unless the gyle developer also had access to a lighthouse keeper's coat for inclement weather? Alas the actual lighthouse keeper [or more likely his son] spotted me wearing it around edinburgh and asked for it back.
"and asked for it back"
Part 0 & 2 please.
Fussy pants CHDot
The office I worked out of in 1992 was part of the first development at the gyle. Most of what is there today came later. They were building the complex that became The Gyle when I was there. The chaps in the oxford must have been listening to our chat about south gyle station, the day I got the whole carriage to sing joni's big yellow taxi and other reminiscences of working in an area yet to actually exist (apart from student grants). These chaps, one called melvin and the other his brother, must have thought there was nothing else out there and assumed I was part of the team building the place. Indeed they were quite insistent and were not interested in denials so I had to take their business cards etc. Fortunately we were very, very drunk indeed.
The coat was a large black tarpaulin rubberised cotton affair. Could keep a small family dry inside. It used to hang on coat stand in flat I frequented above the royal mile, rooftop place with swamp trash and critter hill varmints around. It never moved so one day I asked if I could use it on a long term lease which the varmints were happy about, they were lo-fi guys. So I swirled around Edinburgh for a winter or two in it until the man tht left it in the flat recollected where he had left it. Asked for it back, at which point it was promptly returned. Very dry but could get warm and also did smell of rubber.
Hope this has been sufficient clarification? Just to link into our forum, there was a man who used to make special deliveries to the varmints by bicycle.
I can't find the recent thread about the Gyle expansion plans so I'm going to drop this here:
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/business/edinburgh-s-gyle-shopping-centre-among-three-scottish-complexes-put-up-for-sale-1-4997969
I wonder if the new owners will be any better at attracting non-polluting customers.
"Don't they have shops in Fife?"
Short answer is no. Kirckcaly high street is mostly boarded up, Dunfermline is better but not much. Glenrothes town centre mostly empty units too. Towns mostly Co-op's, takeaway food places, and charity shops.
If we're shopping for anything other than food, we drive to Dunfermline, or drive over the water to Livi (though that doubles as family visit). Weekend there we drove to P&R and got tram to Edin to go to the toy shop that was closed.
Nice walks in Fife though, and I love the view out my livingroom window, I don't care for houses spoiling the view.
On the other side, we have been known to get the train (and have also driven) to Burntisland Leisure Centre, as they have Flumes, which we don't have in Edinburgh!
@chrisfl, we have a flume in Dunbar pool, just saying ...
used to take kids to the flumes at the old Commie Pool. the one that went straight down did something bad to your swimming cossies
@acsimpson "I wonder if the new owners [of the Gyle shopping centre] will be any better at attracting non-polluting customers."
To be fair, the Gyle centre has (what should really be an InterCity-served, given that it serves the airport) railway station, two tram stops, and about a hundred bus routes on its doorstep (unlike, say, the substantially less accessible Fort Kinnaird or Straiton Park).
Of course, its bike parking is just as mediocre as any other Edinburgh shopping destination.
I don't know why that is something that Edinburgh planners and planning enforcement just can't get right: it's far too rare to find a shopping or leisure destination in Edinburgh with any, or appropriately-designed, appropriately-sited, and adequate cycle parking.
Glasgow has been much more on the ball regarding cycle parking provision since forever (well, the 90s), you really would think that it would be a real source of professional embarrassment for Edinburgh Clowncil [sic] to continuously and continually fail to do likewise.
The real problem with the Gyle centre is that, apart from very occasional trips to M&S, there really aren't any shops there that would attract me. I mean, it doesn't even have a Spudulike any more... ;-)
@davecyckl
Interestingly this forum has been asked by our council to nominate where in the city to put more Sheffield stands and we have done so. And the stands have gone in.
So maybe NONE OF US SAID THE gYLE or maybe the landowner (used to be M&S but not now) is not interested
I aGREE THAT BOTH hERNMISTON gAIT AND thE gYLE ARE MORE ACCESSIBLE BY BIKE THan Straiton or Fort Kinnaird. I also AGREE THE gYLE HAS NO shops, hence the application for a cinema etc
"...Burntisland Leisure Centre, as they have Flumes, which we don't have in Edinburgh!"
That's true, someone I know from work does the same. The boy is pleased he's now old enough to go on them. He was so excited the first time.
The links is also good, I prefer when the shows aren't there, but I'm in the minority. Everyone complains the town would be dead, but from what I can tell the only people making money are the showmen, and the food outlets. I've never been sure how that is distilled into actual benefit for the town at large.
I'm not downing Fife, I quite like it, just no shops there. :)
There used to be flumes in Leith Waterworld (no connection to Kevin Costner) until it was closed down and turned into a commercial soft play area. I went down the flumes with No.1 son when he was little. Leith Water World also known wave machine, but also notorious for dirty nappies being left in changing rooms and toddlers leaving floaters in the pool, leading to mass exodus from water...
Burntisland does pretty well for shops, the High Street still has a (rather good) traditional butcher, and "real shops", ice cream parlour, etc. as well as the more usual takeaway outlets, convenience stores, etc. They even have a bank branch that is still open (TSB) and a post office.
Leith Waterworld lost money every time it opened due to number of lifeguards needed, there was the river rapid thing I liked.
There is a world class Off Licence in Thornton, or somewhere out that way in Fife (was visiting Glenrothes by train)
Pricey but good
@gembo: My point about cycle parking is that Edinburgh planners do a poor, almost non-existent, job of requiring/enforcing developers to specify and install cycle parking (sometimes they do the first part but mysteriously forget about the second, including, I hear, some of the school landlords whose buildings the Council rents for children's education) as a condition of getting planning permission for the development. Glasgow has always been much more observant in that regard when it comes to planning and development control (@Tulyar, please confirm!).
The Council (ie, Council Tax payers) should not be having to pay for the cycle parking that the developer should have been required to provide but that they neglected to enforce. (It is odd that Edinburgh is better when it comes to "big picture" planning, but all too often mediocre when it comes to the fine detail!)
If a developer promised or was required to build car parking as part of their development, and somehow "forgot" to do so, we would not expect the local authority to have to build a car park later on at their (our) expense instead!
It is good that CEC is asking for advice about on-street cycle parking locations, as that is in the public realm, but that is a different issue from requiring developers to ensure that their developments cater properly for people arriving by bike in the first place.
Regarding leisure swimming pools, Perth Leisure Pool is also very good (if you're nearer its hinterland), and is still on the go. I would imagine that its staffing requirements would be similar to or perhaps even greater than Leith Waterworld, but as far as I know, it's still doing well.
“but from what I can tell the only people making money are the showmen, and the food outlets.”
Actually some people own both...
“I've never been sure how that is distilled into actual benefit for the town at large.”
Indeed.
“Everyone complains the town would be dead”
Smoke and myths.
https://burgh.buzz/2019/08/20/burntisland-shows-over-for-another-year
http://burgh.buzz/2019/08/28/burntisland-fife-a-town-thats-getting-it-right/
Perth has flumes and a fun pool and an inside outside jacuzzarama and a lanes pool all great, though the kids I took there from Muirhouse preferred jumping off the road bridge over the Tay and into the Tay -
LeithWaterWorldhad so many nooks and crannies needed 17 staff but could not get the same volume of people into the pool as Perth which is a much bigger venture than Leith Waterworld ever was.
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