CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

TUC day of action

(88 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Morningsider
  • Latest reply from wee folding bike

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  1. Morningsider
    Member

    As I am sure you all know, tomorrow is the TUC day of action against the UK Government's proposed changes to public sector pensions. As a union branch secretary in my workplace (yes, really) I would encourage you all to show what support you can for striking workers - and if you are a public sector union member to take part in the action.

    If you think the UK Government is justified in the changes it is making then please stop and chat with pickets to find out what they do for you and why the proposed changes are unjust. If you can't stop then a friendly wave would be welcome.

    Back on topic (and this is a genuine question) - any idea how I can carry a small batch of placards on my bike without folding them - they are too big for my rucksac and I don't have panniers.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. SRD
    Moderator

    just got this on FB:

    ‎"So when the ruling class decide we can have a day off for the royal wedding it doesn't damage the economy but when the workers decide to strike it costs millions! COPY AND PASTE THIS IF YOU SEE THE HYPOCRISY AND DOUBLE STANDARDS".

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    any idea how I can carry a small batch of placards on my bike without folding them

    @Morningsider, I can see two options.

    1. Get hold of some luggage webbing straps (kind used for car roof racks are good) and lash the placards to the side or top of your rear rack (assuming you have one). If on the side ensure clearance for heel strike.

    2. Use a trailer. There are a few trailer owners on the forum that could be borrowed from. I can lend you one if you get stuck.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    @morningsider my trailer also available

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. I'll be at work as usual, but ride past the council buildings on the Royal Mile, so if not coughing my guts up will try to remember to wave.

    Have interesting dicussions at work with my otherwise lovely colleague at the desk across from me who definitely goes in for the whole 'gold plated pension' thing. Oh, and she's a pensions lawyer... Somehow the myth that public sector pay has caught up with, and surpassed, the private sector has become a Daily Wail wet dream of acceptance. This then seems to drive the thought that public sector workers are getting ALL of the benefits without ANY of the downside.

    What I don't understand, if that's the case, is why the whingers aren't clamouring to try and get jobs in the public sector. Is it because, deep down, they know they're speaking rubbish and would rather trade a decent pension for a higher salary?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    What I don't understand, if that's the case, is why the whingers aren't clamouring to try and get jobs in the public sector.

    Reminds me of all the drivers who complain about cyclists not having to pay road tax, no test, RLJ-ing, pavement cycling, etc. Similar psychology at work perhaps?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. Good point actually. Maybe that's how to approach the arguments from now on! "Why not join us in the unregulated nirvana of cycling where you can do as you please while paying nothing on roads funded by others which have beenlaid out specifically for us as part of the war on terror the motorist!"

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. spitters
    Member

    I have 3 of said bungee hook type cords and managed to carry a large metal filing box home on the back on the pannier once - you can borrow them if you like

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. Morningsider
    Member

    Thanks for the offer of trailers folks - I'll attempt the lashing to the bike approach first (hopefully not as windy as today!).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Isn't all of the fuss from the Unions about the extra 3% 'contribution' which is essentially a tax as it is going to deficit reduction, rather than into the pension fund?
    I thought the Unions, and Labour were largely supportive of Lord Hutton's report, and accept most the suggested changes in the report are required? (I work in public sector, and 1 or 2 colleagues will be taking tomorrow off).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    @Baldcyclist - the contributions are going up, but the final pension value is going down. The percentages differ from sector to sector and scheme to scheme. I'm mostly familiar with the Universities Superannuation Scheme.

    @spitters - I was thinking more of wider webbing straps with self-tightening buckle fastenings. You pull the loose end and they tighten around the cargo nicely. Hold big flat sail like things better in the wind than bungee cords!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. SRD
    Moderator

    @crowriver - could juryrig with a standard trouser webbing belt? or any sort of adjustable backpack type strap. Not as tight a hold, perhaps, but avoiding the stretch of bungees.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. amir
    Member

    I also am in a government pension scheme. We have real trouble attracting applicants for our posts from the UK. Generally the applicants are from outside the EU. We cannot compete with the private sector.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. Morningsider
    Member

    Baldcyclist - the UK Government is proposing a number of changes:

    Increasing retirement age substantially.
    Increasing contribution rates each year for the next three years.
    Changing annual uprating of pension (once retired) from RPI to CPI, i.e. lower annual increases
    Changing from final salary to career average scheme.

    This is on top of a two year pay freeze (likely to extend to four years) while inflation runs at 5%. My workpace has let 10% of its staff go without replacement, without a reduction in workload. For good measure various UK Government Ministers have also chosen to insult me and my colleagues intelligence.

    I appreciate that things are bad in the private sector - but private sector workers will not gain from changes to public sector pensions. I would argue it would give private sector employers even less of an incentive to offer decent pensions.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    @SRD, backpack type straps should work. Old fashioned string/twine works too, but is a faff to fasten and tighten. Unfastening merely requires a pocket knife, however!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. "... UK Government Ministers have also chosen to insult me my, and my colleagues', intelligence."

    Sheesh... ;) (joke! joke joke joke! note the winking smiley thingy!)

    "I appreciate that things are bad in the private sector"

    Yip, that would be why after being made redundant at the start of the year I could be ending 2011 in effectively the same position - except I was taken on on a 9 month contract, which now may not be renewed so that I count as 'natural wastage' in costcutting terms. And I won't find out until two weeks before Christmas at the easrliest. And there really are no jobs out there just now.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. SRD
    Moderator

    anyone else hear the R4 10pm news last night 'its really dire in the north east, but look at Scotland, much better there'.

    okay, so nice to for once have recognition that it is not the same up here and that some policies may be better, but honestly. every bit of news so incredibly depressing.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Sorry folks, I think my previous post has been read as maybe a lack of sympathy, it isn't!

    I am a public sector worker (Uni of Ed) so am aware of the pension changes as colleagues will have to endure them, although strangely my Uni pension is essentially a private pension which is also being changed - more years, more contributions, less benefit.

    My original point though was that both the Unions (who called for the strike), and the Labour party (who an ex Minister for authored the Hutton report) are largely in favour of the proposals.

    The only area of contention, and what the Unions were campaigning against was that the 3% increase is essentially a tax. Therefore from the opinion here and elsewhere, the People, and the Unions seem to be striking at cross purposes, even if the Unions win on this one, our benefits are gone!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. amir
    Member

    "And there really are no jobs out there just now. "

    We have (at the moment) but you'll probably need to retrain.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  20. Morningsider
    Member

    anth - I knew I was asking for it as soon as I wrote that! Hope you manage to sort out an extension to your contract.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  21. "We have (at the moment) but you'll probably need to retrain."

    Exactly. Then wipe out 11 years of experience and salary increase. Okay, so it would be a job, but would I get it even so? With so many people out of work employers can be selective and choose people with very very specific qualifications and experience. Even within my area of commercial law they can be very picky about exactly what type of commercial law you have.

    Re-training would be lovely, but how long would it take, how much would it cost (while not earning any money). I'm putting in place contingencies in case of the worst case scenario - they're a gamble, but less so than re-training with no guarantee of an outcome.

    (was put forward for a job with the council last week - they only interviewed two people, both of whom are on secondment with the council just now - c'est la vie).

    Sorry, whinge over - I've got all sympathy with public sector workers and the changes being made (and my other half is one of those public sector workers), but right now the thought of a lower pension and working later in life in 30 odd years time sounds more pleasant than starting 2012 unemployed... (and the way it's all being gone about here is adding to the annoyance - I'm being discussed at a high level committee, my bosses wanted to make me permanent, could only apply for an extension to my contract, and the forms were in too late for the last committee meeting (still in advance of the meeting, but dehumanisation declares you must forget you're dealing with people and give some leeway) which is why I'm now not being discussed till 6/7 December - and probably won't find out for another week if the last meeting is anything to go by, when my bosses weren't told till a week later that I hadn't even been discussed).

    Sorry. Bit of a hijack. Rather angry with things.

    Solidarity brothers! And sisters... I want to have babies.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  22. SRD
    Moderator

    Anth - still, be glad relieved you've got another income in the family and no kids - SRD

    Posted 12 years ago #
  23. amir
    Member

    Cross fingers for you, Anth.

    Burn that frustration off by going for a good bike ride (if the weather ever improves).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    Surgeon to patient, "I'm afraid the situation is very serious. I shall have to amputate your left arm below the elbow."

    Seeing the patient's terror, he quips, "Well look on the bright side. If we were in the North East of England I'd have to cut your left leg off too!"

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. Kirst
    Member

    Morningsider, do I know you in real life by any chance? I've been around in UNISON in Edinburgh since 1995 or so, NHS then local government.

    The government is proposing 4 changes to public sector pension schemes
    - increased contributions
    - increased retiral age
    - change to career average instead of final salary
    - change from calculating pension increases based on Retail Price Index to Consumer Price Index

    Right, we are all agreed that demographic changes mean changes are needed for the pension fund - but these have already been made. Changes were made to the pension fund a couple of years ago which have addressed the changes required as a result of a growing ageing population. So the government saying that changes are required on demographic grounds is nonsense. We've already addressed that. So part of the reason for the dispute and the strike is that the government are saying more changes are required on demographic grounds and they're not.

    Second thing - increased retirement age - fine if you're fit and well in a sedentary job. Not that great if you're a road-mender, or a physio, or a janny, or something else which requires a high level of strength, fitness and stamina. People in many public sector jobs are unlikely to be able to work until 68 because they just won't be fit enough, let alone the mental stress experienced by people who are dealing with people who have been abused etc.

    Change to career average salary from final salary - for some people this might work out better, but there are lots of ways to calculate a career average and they haven't said which way they want to use. So this might be better for some people, but it might be much much worse, especially for women who are more likely to have years out for childcare because of the patriarchy and that. Should we accept a change when even the government don't know how they want that change to be in reality? We could be signing up to something that sees us all much much worse off.

    Change from calculating annual pension increases based on RPI - CPI - already imposed without agreement, means pensioners are receiving much lower increases every year - pension increases have been reduced by about 15%.

    Proposal for increased contributions - government wants us to contribute considerably more each towards our pensions, saying we'll need this to cover demographic changes. Firstly, see above - already addressed - government are fibbing. Secondly, they're fibbing. If this was about making us pay more to increase the pension funds, you'd expect to see the pension funds going up. But what the government want to do is make us pay more, then reduce the local government grant (which is the money central government gives to each local authority every year) by the amount of the increased contributions, so each employer will reduce their contributions to employees' pensions. So we pay more, central government pays less, and overall the pension funds do not increase. So it won't address demographic changes at all. It just means we pay more and the government has more in the Treasury to pay for illegal wars, MPs' duck-houses, Nadine Dorries etc. So, fibbing. The Scottish Government have said that if the increased contributions bit was enforced, they would pay the increased contributions for local government employees in Scotland so our contributions would not go up - Westminster government has said if the Scottish government did that, they'd just make some legislative changes to impose it on us anyway.

    Furthermore (I do like a good furthermore, don't you?) there is no lack of money in local government pension schemes in Scotland. Lothian pension fund is so far in surplus that we could all stop paying in tomorrow and it could meet all of its commitments for the next 20 years. It appears to have been managed sensibly and well over the years and has a very healthy surplus. If these changes go through, people will stop joining, existing members will come out - several people have said to me that they can't afford the increased contributions and would leave the scheme. The scheme relies on being attractive to members, being a good thing, so that people want to join - if it loses members it loses money and then it will have problems meeting its commitments.

    I don't think these changes are anything to do with affordability. They're about a government that hates the public sector, thinks we're a waste of space, hates the fact we've managed to retain reasonable terms and conditions when private sector employees haven't fought for their rights, and wants to see us worse off. They want to take our pension money and spend it on whatever nonsense they want to spend it on - massive pensions for MPs being one of the things they're happy to keep paying for, even if they're voted out after one term.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. crowriver
    Member

    @anth, I hope things work out.

    My (public sector) employer ended all time limited and ad-hoc contracts several years ago. A (quite generous) voluntary severance scheme ended earlier this year, meaning those remaining have to do more work due to a recruitment freeze. They also tampered with everyone's terms and conditions to allow the same work to be done by fewer people. Oh there's also the pensions shenanigans.

    All out tomorrow then!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. DaveC
    Member

    ADMIN EDIN

    Some things are better by PM

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. Nelly
    Member

    Kirst/Morningsider, your arguments make sense, however who is going to listen - not the government.

    Private sector employers have already made swingeing pension changes, so these changes will not (as suggested by morningsider) give any incentive to employers to reduce pensions - Finance Directors in the private sector made that decision years ago, and implemented them much quicker than the government can ever hope to.

    I work in the private sector - and am clued up about the changes being made to your pensions, and its frankly not great news for anyone affected.

    However, while appreciating that you mentioned the private sector, I wonder how many people have any idea what has happened - already - in the private sector?

    Where I work, we too have had some hard changes foisted on the workforce - with zero media recognition or sympathy, and zero union recognition or action.

    My own place as an example based on some of the issues mentioned ?

    Increasing retirement age substantially. Check
    Increasing contribution rates each year for the next three years. Already happened, started 4 years ago
    Changing annual uprating of pension (once retired) from RPI to CPI, i.e. lower annual increases Already in place
    Changing from final salary to career average scheme. Change to a DC scheme based on lower earnings about to happen

    This is on top of a two year pay freezeCheck (likely to extend to four years) while inflation runs at 5%.

    My workpace has let 10% of its staff go without replacement Try 33%

    I appreciate you are being turned over and are entirely correct to protest - but at least you have that option - I did not.

    Many (private sector) people walking past pickets on wednesday may not have much sympathy, simply because they have already had to live with reductions in salary / benefits / pensions / redundancy etc.

    Not saying it is correct, its simply what people will think.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. Kirst
    Member

    I respect that, but the majority of private sector workers had the opportunity to unionise, organise and fight what was happening. Unions are not the RAC. You don't pay your subs and wait for them to turn up and sort things out, they're about collective action and responsibility. If those workers chose not to do that, that's their choice, but they shouldn't begrudge us our fight.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. Nelly
    Member

    "the majority of private sector workers had the opportunity to unionise, organise and fight what was happening"

    Incorrect.

    Whether you agree with me or not, to suggest that private sector workers "chose" to do nothing is simplistic in the extreme.

    Many do have a 'union' but it is a toothless staff association by any other name.

    And when you work somewhere that compromises people out the organisation without a minutes thought - you dont generally arrange into a union.

    However, thanks for the lesson on collective action.....

    Posted 12 years ago #

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