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Bike for audax?

(101 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from crowriver
  • This topic is resolved

12…4

  1. crowriver
    Member

    Now I'm on the mend from my wee fall on Friday, I'm returning back to my cycling plans for the year ahead. I think I've covered the utility side pretty well over the past few years: I've a variety of trailers and towing bike and now the Ute, so hauling loads is no longer a big issue. I know I can do loaded touring and cycle camping too, once I have my MTB/exped tourer project finished I'll have a range of capabilities there too.

    So the gap appears to be cycling for its own sake: not carbon road machines and racing, but the longer distance, somewhat less speedy Audax/Randonneur scene is what appeals to me.

    I'm going to be pushing my regular distance riding a bit this year, and my long suffering partner has even agreed to me taking alternate Sundays off for day and group rides. Currently I'm managing just fine on my Raleigh Pioneer Trail, its 501 Cromoly frame is comfortable and it rolls well and climbs okay too. The Raleigh may do me just fine for 100km or even 200km rides as long as it's serviced properly. Its 6 speed freewheel, basic mechs and hubs will probably keep going for years.

    However I've a hankering after something a bit more fancy, with drop bars. I can't justify a bike from one of the specialists like Mercian, Bob Jackson or Thorn. There are a few bikes out there from the larger companies though which are interesting.

    Dawes Clubman and Century seem like nice bikes, clearly designed for Audax, but I am nervous about carbon forks.
    Light tourers such as the Dawes Galaxy or Claud Butler Dalesman could fit the bill too. 631 frames both with similar spec, the Dalesman has a slightly racier geometry.
    Then slightly different again the Ridgeback Voyage or Revolution Country Traveller. 520 cromoly frames, one with disc brakes too.

    I'm not planning an immediate purchase but if I get into this distance riding I wonder. Should I just upgrade the Raleigh with better bits as I go along? Or buy a new / lightly used bike and enjoy the performance benefits?

    If anyone owns any of these models or has experience of riding one, I'd be grateful for the benefit of your advice.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. DaveC
    Member

    I've got a Dawes Galaxy you are welcome to try on a ride if you like. I don't know you're budget but a local bike shop has a Clubman and a Galaxy in stock, 2010 model I think, new of course but with a wedge knocked off. Check out Hardie-Bikes and let Graig know Dave Crampton sent you.

    Get in touch if you want to see my Audax bike (the Galaxy).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator



    Dawes Audax Giro 700 in 531. This was a builder-upper from old road bike bits and 1997 new old stock eBay frame. It's only got a 4 digit serial number so don't imagine that many were made. It's been treated to new wheels and hubs and bottom bracket and tyres and cassettes and chains and chainrings since then as I wore the old ones out. Built with sole purpose of being audax bike, it's since become the everything bike.

    Dawes still do something called Giro aimed at the sportive / audax market.

    I think there's been various debates about "audax" bikes here and probably on many other forums. I guess the simple answer is whatever sort of bike you are happy and comfortable cycling the long distances on, in the time required. At the end of the day you don't want too much of a heavyweight if you have to haul it up one last big climb at the end of 100 or 200ks.

    Carbon forks are nothing to be afraid of.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. Dave
    Member

    If I was you, I'd try on your current bike and decide based on that experience what, if anything, you need to change.

    You don't see many audax riders with flat bar bikes, but I'm not sure why, because you also never see them doing anything more complicated than cranking along on the hoods anyway... if you got bar-ends to give you an alternate hand position and are riding on slick tyres, it should be quite workable.

    Of course, that's not helping you with the n+1 lust... the Clubman does look quite nice, almost any winter/training road bike will be ideal though.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    @DaveC, a very generous offer, but I'm not sure you ought to trust me with your pride and joy, as I'm gaining a reputation for careless riding ;-)

    Looked at the Clubman in the shop you mentioned, alas it is too big. Many of the second hand audax and light touring bikes I see advertised are 23" frames which is too big for my wee stubby legs. My Raleigh is 19", the single speed Mike Kowal is 20", and I can fit most 21" frames. 52-54cm is my ideal frame size range, depending on top tube length, stem, bars, etc.

    @kaputnik, that's a really nice bike and I can see you've invested time, care and some cash in getting it right for you. Don't know if I'm yet up for the challenge of building a performance bicycle from a frame, need to complete my MTB tourer first. I had a look at the Dawes Giro and Sportif, some good deals available on previous years' models, but they are really more in the sportive category, more of the road racing bike with mudguards style, double rather than triple chainrings, etc.

    @Dave, this is the Raleigh. I changed the flat bars for semi-north roads (called trekking) so it is a slightly more upright riding position; fitted new tyres, guards. The only upgrade I've made since the photo below is an alloy micro-adjust seat post, a saddlebag, and a computer. It's not super fast but it climbs pretty well. I do need to change those pedals mind.


    Raleigh Pioneer Trail

    My only worry about the Raleigh is whether it will prove reliable over longer distances. Also while it does not feel that heavy to me, I might look a bit like Yehuda on his Van Schweringen, rattling along while the sleek Galaxies, Mercians, etc. breeze past...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. DaveC
    Member

    Well its not exactly my pride and joy, but the offer still stands, and I think the frame size is around 54cm but I've never measured it... but you could drop the seat, and I have a second bike I can ride along side you if you wanted to go a few miles.

    I think Hardie bikes have two Clubmans, 58 and 53 looking at their website. I saw one in their shop on Sunday and it looks very nice. Personally for me (and my size) if I were looking I'd go for the Galaxy in their shop also, 54cm. Its a real bargin and aroud a £100 more than I paid for my ~2005 model just over a year ago! (could I have waited that long??)

    How far are you riding these days? You could try a 100km and see how you get on with you're current bike, for comfort etc... Those tyres look like 40 - 45mm? I have replaced the 32mm tyres on my Galaxy with 28's. Why don't you weigh you're bike and post the results on here, (weigh yourself carrying and not carriyng the bike on bathroom sales) then others can weigh their bikes but to be honest weight of a bike isn't everything, and if you're on a ride with us you would never be stranded if you're bike broke down as we'd either fix en-route or organise transport home for you (I alwwasy pop my roofrack on my car when I'm out incase I have to give the wife a call in an emergency).

    Dave C

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. amir
    Member

    A lot about comfort is to do with getting the geometry right. Some elements you can vary on a bike (e.g. raising seat, changing stem) others you can't.

    I haven't taken this seriously enough in the past but will do in future. My old main road bike (an audax bike by Ridgeback), which is now my winter weekend bike and summer commuter, is nowhere near as comfortable over longer rides as my new road bike and much of this is down to geometry (longer head tube etc)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. crowriver
    Member

    @DaveC, the tyres on the Raleigh are 32mm Schwalbes (probably quite heavy but pretty much puncture proof), originally it had chunky semi-knobbly CX style tyres, I think about 37mm or so.

    As to distances, recently doing 40 miles or more on a day ride, sometimes nearer 50. I've done longer in the past, eg. Edinburgh-St Andrews, but not for a while. Also those slightly longer rides took me quite a while, mainly because I was carrying too much: I now know better! I did them on the 'fast hybrid', the Globe Vienna.

    If I get a chance I'll weigh the Raleigh and report back.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    I think I'd agree with amir that geometry is important. The geometry affects your ride position. And on an Audax you need, I think, to find a compromise between comfort and aerodynamics. The Raleigh won't allow you to tuck down when pressing into a headwind. And if I remember what Sheldon Brown says correctly, saddles can get uncomfortable on long rides because as our arms and legs tire we put more weight on the saddle. So a bike which transfers more weight forward will keep you comfortable in the saddle for longer.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    I did consider swapping out the stem and bars on the Raleigh in favour of drops (it has been done)*, but it means finding new shifters, levers etc. You can see if you click on the link some bodged gripshifts as bar end shifters - hmm. Can't do that with my thumbies, though I could conceivably fit them to the stem somehow as a bodge rather than fork out for bar end shifters - almost impossible to find for 6 speed SIS derailleur anyhow.

    Other possibility is to reverse the semi-north roads so that they are 'drop' north roads. But then I'd be hunched down all the time...

    *Here's another one, adjustable stem this time which may be an idea. Converted to hub gear too.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Just for the fun I would go see David and have a go at a recumbent. I know you want an upright but I cannot recommend them enough for all day comfort.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. crowriver
    Member

    @ruggtomcat, they do look the business but it's unlikely I could afford one. I understand learning to ride one is quite an adventure too!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. ruggtomcat
    Member

    you never know unless you try, Ive had most people riding mine within about half an hour at the most, and its more difficult than a midracer.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. crowriver
    Member

    Thanks for all the suggestions and advice folks.

    I think I'm going to convert the Raleigh to drops. I've just ordered some NOS stem shifters for SIS 6 speed. Looking at adjustable stems too so I can have long distance and shorter distance positions. Might even swap bars and levers with the single speed, maybe convert that to fixie-tastic drop north roads. Otherwise get some bars and levers from Bike Station/fleaBay, tape from LBS/EBC, new cables.

    I'll weigh the bike before/after but I suspect it won't get lighter.

    Longer term, if I find the Raleigh's not quite up to the task, will start looking for a fancier steed.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Dave
    Member

    Weight is not very important on an audax. For what it's worth, my Paris-Brest-Paris bike was just over 50lbs taking into account all essentials.

    Obviously it's nice to have a lighter bike all said and done, but probably the main thing you will notice is that a bunch of riders with improbably heavy looking bikes are disappearing down the road in front of you (and me!) .... ;-)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Crowriver is that your dog? We got a Cocker Spaniel back in November. He's lovely but hard work.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. amir
    Member

    Have you set up transport for your new dog yet, Tom?

    Basket? Trailer?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. crowriver
    Member

    @Tom, ha! No, this is not my bike, but a lovely metallic green number owned by some CTC member dahn sawf. I was just using it as inspiration...

    Can't decide whether to go for an adjustable stem or just a short reach one, say 40mm-60mm. Depends what turns up at the Bike Station/fleaBay I guess.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @crowriver - my experience (limited to 2 different ones) of adjustable stems is they are annoying as they ultimately always creak and aren't as "solid" as they "should" be. Very annoying on a long ride with nothing for company but the scenery and "creak, creak, creak, creak, creak, creak, creak..."

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. amir
    Member

    I have an adjustable stem on my commuter. No point in it. Best to get the right stem. As kaputnik says, "creak, creak, creak, creak, creak, creak, creak..."

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. crowriver
    Member

    Short reach it is then. I've ordered some NOS randonneur style bars which hopefully will be comfier than standard drops over longer distances. Also some Dia Compe levers with canti pull. The bars will be lower than the semi-north roads and I'll be a bit more stretched out than my current riding position. I'll try to compensate by getting a short reach stem and raising it a wee bit.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @amir I was hoping the dog would pull me along on my bike. But a basket would be super cool.

    @crowriver, pity, that's a little corner of heaven right there.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. crowriver
    Member

    While checking and preparing the Raleigh Pioneer Trail for tomorrow's CTC ride, I thought I'd weigh it. Comes to approximately 15kg, with Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres, rear rack, full mudguards, battery lights, computer, curly cable lock attached via bracket, two bungee cords and a Carradice Junior fitted. I suppose if all those extras were removed and lighter tyres fitted, maybe shave between 1kg and 1.5kg off.

    Not too bad. Not a lightweight racer, but not that shabby. The stock 2009 model Dawes Super Galaxy with 853 frame is 13.4kg. 320g of the difference is because the Raleigh has 32mm Marathon Pluses instead of the Galaxy's 32mm Marathons. So basically the Raleigh with 501 tubes weighs not much more than a 2 year old Super Galaxy which cost £1500 new. Clearly the Dawes is a far superior cycle in terms of components and materials. 2011 model Super Galaxy has swapped to 631 and is only 12.5kg.

    ADDENDUM - Just checked the manufacturer's weight specs of some items. The lights, lock with bracket, and Carradice come up to 1.2kg. So it's 13.8kg with slightly heavier tyres than the Super Galaxy.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. DaveC
    Member

    I rode with a freind who got a Tifosi audax with rack bosses etc..?? Off Wiggle. its an Audax bike and has Shimano Sora through out but it was very light. We didn't have scales but I guess it was near 5 - 7kg. its an Alu bike but was really light compared to my steel Galaxy.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. crowriver
    Member

    @DaveC, looks similar to the Dawes Clubman but with a alloy frame. According to this review, it's 10.5kg without a rack, etc. That was the 2009 model mind, maybe lighter now.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. kaputnik
    Moderator

    with Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres

    I think a M+ in 32c weighs about 980g or something mad like that.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    According to Schwalbe web site, 700 x 32c in Marathon Plus are 800g each, in Marathon 640g. The racier Marathon Supreme only 375g in that size.

    However the M+ gives an incredible level of puncture protection. One might lose some time due the increased weight, but the tyres roll fine. One may lose a lot more time fixing a puncture!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. amir
    Member

    The chance of getting an attack from the fairy does depend where and when you ride. In town the chances are obviously relatively high but on audax the argument for bullet proof types is not as strong whereas you may well be glad of anything that reduces the effort.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. crowriver
    Member

    Just out of interest, which tyres to CCE folk prefer/recommend for Audax? (Ignoring for a moment my spec reqs, and just going with what you use or would suggest to anyone).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    700Cx25 are pretty ubiquitous on the "big wheeled" bikes.

    I had GP4000s first time round. Awesome but expensive. "Downgraded" to Gatorskins for meantime. If I was going back to doing more and longer, I'd go back up a bit for something a bit lighter, GP or GP4Season, perhaps not all the way to the top of the shelf 4000s though.

    A Gatorskin 25 weighs in at 320g and a GP4000 at 205g. The difference in performance is noticeable - a lighter tyre just takes much less effort to accelerate. I used to commute in M+ on my touring bike but found the constant stop/start/accelerate to ramming speed/stop/start/accelerate again process exhausting over even just 6 miles, so I changed to Gatorskins (28) and the difference was amazing.

    I guess the whole stop/start thing doesn't matter so much for Audax, but bare in mind the weight of a tyre does come into play when taking it up a hill and keeping it up to speed. Of course tyres are always a trade off between weight and durability. I used the 4000s quite happily for a good couple of thousand miles of puncture free riding until I stopped using them so much for Audax and more for general riding on crummier surfaces and they began to deteriorate and get a series of rapid punctures and eventual tyre failure.

    Also to bare in mind that my (limited) touring experience of tyres was M+ structural failure and Gatorskin puncture-free win over 800 fully-loaded miles. No tyre is bombproof, and a lighter, more compliant tyre is easier to fix at the side of the road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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