CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Where cyclists live

(53 posts)

No tags yet.


12

  1. chdot
    Admin

    Larger PDF.

    This has been put together by Instography using data from several sources -

    "Compared with the average datazone, the purple areas show where cycling is likely to be below average (1-9%) and the green areas show where the analysis suggests cycling is above average – between 13% and 28% of adults cycling."

    This is where people answering questions about the amount they cycle live - not where they cycle. The Pentlands are green because (from a tiny number of households) an above average number cycle.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    Very interesting, and not altogether unexpected. General trend appears to be:

    City centre tenements = higher than average number of cyclists
    Suburban houses = lower than average

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Treading on eggshells here, but at face value one might infer that cycling levels are quite low in some of the city's more "social"* housing areas?

    The same might also go for the opposite end of the wealth spectrum, Edinburgh's "1%" shall we call them?

    (* I think "social housing" is the acceptable term. I'm not sure if I live in antisocial housing though.)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. gembo
    Member

    Previous thread suggesting it was the lower middle classes who embraced cycling after the toffs switched to motors in 20th century. Perhaps 100 years later this remains the case?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. alibali
    Member

    There might be a link to contours too. Living up one of the hills (Braid, Corstorphine etc) might well put folk off starting if there are no gently graded routes in and out.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. crowriver
    Member

    So next step is to campaign for all the areas shaded green to be made 20mph zones!

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. crowriver
    Member

    Also, it would be interesting to see geographic mapped data for levels of car use, bus use, train use, and walking. Don't want to make extra work for anyone, but just saying...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. Instography
    Member

    10 points to Kaputnik who spots the schemes doughnutting the affluent cycling core.

    I did this for a work blog. The question is where Edinburgh should spend its 5%. Shovel it into the pockets of the sharp-elbowed affluent core or use it to try to get the long term health benefits of cycling in the generally less active, less healthy estates.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I actually find it really interesting that it appears more tenemented folk cycle than suburbians. Might be a distance thing, but when you've got a garage you've got cracking space to store bikes easily...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. Instography
    Member

    The schemes have garages?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    No, but Duddingston does...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. Instography
    Member

    Duddingston's average (no shading) and you have to bear in mind the population in Duddingston. Lots of old people with a Nissan Micra in the driveway. Storage is not critical (as the tenement areas demonstrate).

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    No I know that's what it shows, I was just saying that it personally surprises me as I know I love having the storage and would have thought that lugging a bike up stairs would put people off. Obviously it doesn't - just reflecting on being wrong in my supposition.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  14. custard
    Member

    a lack of parking in the tenements might have an effect Anth
    also many stairs have ready made bike racks AKA bannisters ;)

    Posted 13 years ago #

  15. Instography
    Member

    I think a garage only affects the maximum value of N.

    What I might do next is explore the gap between the 40% of households where there is a bicycle that could be used by an adult and the 11% where there is adult participation in cycling.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I don't think it's a purely money thing. There's lots of cycling in tenementville and often is said because of lots of students and its a cheap and convenient way to get about. So students skint so students have bikes not cars is traditional logic.

    But there's lots of cars in "schemeville" (horrible phrase, for want of a better word). Where people may be living on lower than average incomes. But these places, in the "outer donut" are not so conveniently connected to the centre, where the jobs tend to lie if you want to walk / cycle / take public transport.

    So perhaps that suggests proving good arterial off-road cycling routes past these areas is good (I hesitate to say "through" as there's a history of trouble in a lot of these places and a lot of people would think twice before cycling through at night).

    God I sound like such a snob. But you all know what I mean I'm sure and take it in the spirit with which it is intended.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    It's more a centre/periphery thing rather than money. If you're on the edge of town you're much more likely to get the bus or drive. Whether dedicated cycle infrastructure will change that is an unknown. Many folk think cycling is hard work and the prospect of more than a mile or two distance is 'too far' to bike it. From 'our' perspective they're mistaken, but perceptions like that are more difficult to change.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  18. gembo
    Member

    The schemes are all peripheral and relatively poorly connected to the centre.

    There is a little bit more cycling in W Hailes the scheme I know. All BMX.

    William and James have a large cupboard where the leccy meter is situated, full of bikes supplied by Shane downstairs - these are mountain bikes. THere is a kind of cycling culture but not as we know it.

    THe canal towpath goes through, largely used by dog walkers and people going to Heriot Watt.

    The Craigmillar trail paths that aren't being funded [on another thread] wopuld be a good way of encouraging locals on their mountain bikes but would of course be used by we lower middle class bods.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    "
    The question is where Edinburgh should spend its 5%. Shovel it into the pockets of the sharp-elbowed affluent core or use it to try to get the long term health benefits of cycling in the generally less active, less healthy estates.
    "

    There is also the question of what proportion to spend on 'infrastructure' and/or education/training etc.

    "
    Former Health Minister Malcolm Chisholm MSP today welcomed the news that Edinburgh Leisure, the not-for-profit trust which manages Edinburgh's sport and leisure services, had managed to secure £650,000 additional funding to develop activity programmes aimed at those most in need.

    "

    http://www.edinburghlabour.com/2012/02/chisholm-targeted-leisure-spending-is.html?m=1

    Though obviously "the 5%" comes from City Development so will go on cycling infrastructure and promotion.

    Edinburgh Leisure has run courses involving bikes (I think aimed at older people).

    I wonder if there is any joined-up-thinking about these particular budgets - certainly some potential.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  20. SRD
    Moderator

    Anth - some proportion of the folks in tenements will live there because they bike/bus and want to be close to centre, and people who live in bungalows will have done so because they 'need' the driveway. But yes, it is sad that those folks with potential storage for bikes don't use it...but then they have a car. Anyone in your area live sans car? quite a lot 'round us do.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  21. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I guess that's chicken and egg... Do people not own cars in tenements because they're harder to park; or do they live in tenements because they don't own cars.

    No, I can't think of any houses round us that don't have a car in the driveway. But by the same token, I've got a car in the driveway and cycle to work - so in the grand scheme of things does mere car ownership act as a preclusion to cycling? (though I'd have to admit that owning a car does make it more likely you'll use a car than if you don't own a car :P )

    Flipping it again I've got a couple of friends live tenementally sans motor car. Nor do either own a bike. Also have tenemented friends who own cars (plural) but cycle everywhere. Obviously that's anecdote trying to masquerade as data, and Insto's work is more detailed and correct. I fully accept that my intial assumptions on the ownership of a garage leading to more cycle ownership and use were misplaced.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  22. spitters
    Member

    I live in a tenement which has a garage - very odd.
    I have two cars, one is a classic and does less than 1000 miles a year and is mainly kept for sentimental and investment purposes.
    The family car for shopping trips and runs to the grandparents (because let's face it the last time we looked at a train return trip to Ayr for the family it was £72). Wife sometimes cycles canal to Riccarton research park but mostly takes the car, office is moving to the M8 big red heads industrial park soon anyway so that pooches that possiblity
    I cycle daily into town because I don't want to pay £10 a day for a parking space and I don't like spending £2.60 a day on the bus then sitting next to loud idiots with the hacking crud infecting me with their germs (and idiotic conversations).
    I calculated once and have since forgotten the cash I save on not getting the bus minus the parts and maintenance on my bike. I think point to people's pokets and show them the cash they could save £540 per year might help

    Posted 13 years ago #

  23. Morningsider
    Member

    Excellent work Insto. My understanding of the lack of cycling in areas of deprivation is that "status" has a lot to do with it. Cars are seen as an aspirational purchase, while cycling is seen as a last resort means of transport by many. If you already live on a low income, cycling can be seen as further highlighting your lack of cash and limited transport options.

    Obviously, if you have a nice house, job etc. and are confident in your status then choosing to cycle is easier.

    In addition, lots more people in areas of depriavtion have long term halth problems, may have higher concerns about personal safety etc.

    Obviously, there will always be exceptions and these are only a couple of aspects of a very complex issue - but it is worth remembering that transport choices are rarely made logically.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  24. custard
    Member

    @ Morningsider
    I got a similar attitude from folks at work when I put the car off the road and went bike full time
    the common theme was cant you afford the car now
    this from people who i know have large debts,some over 1 years salary(excluding mortgage)
    Im not rolling in money,but get by on my wages with debt less than 1 months wages
    my car has been sitting on the drive for months now. dont know if its feasible to MOT now,though I'l look into it now the weather has improved
    I do miss a car for large shops and going on family days out

    Posted 13 years ago #

  25. Kim
    Member

    What does this map really tell us? It mostly show that distribution of leisure cyclist, with a scattering of utility cyclist in the student areas. Leisure cycling is mainly a middle class activity, utility cycling is at a far lower level and tends to be across all socio-economic groups.

    As to how to spend the 5% transport capital budget? Well the word transport is a strong indication, it should be used to make using a bicycle as a means of transport save and convenient. This really means providing good infrastructure on primary routes, so that it is quick and easy to get to places that people want to go.

    Yes there is a place for training children, but most adults do actually know how to ride a bicycle and there is little actual demand for adult training.

    There is a place for promoting cycling, but to avoid "Shovel it into the pockets of sharp-elbowed affluent core", this should emphasise utility cycle rather than leisure cycling.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  26. SRD
    Moderator

    Kim - distinguishing between the two seems rather difficult in many cases.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  27. wingpig
    Member

    @Kim How can you tell from that map what people are using the cycles for?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  28. cb
    Member

    Really interesting graph. Any more info on the question(s) that was/were asked to produce the data?

    I'm with Morningsider on the point about "status".
    I think it also works in areas of affluence too, where having, not just a car, but the right 'type' of car is seen as important. I'm not sure if a budding cyclist could be "embarrased" to cycle if living in such an area.

    The green blob / affluence / class link was the first thing to strike me when saw the map.

    On closer inspection, certain areas like the Grange, Merchiston, parts of Morningside, are actually only average. From my experience many people in these areas only ever leave their house to get into their cars (or perhasp to walk a dog).

    Posted 13 years ago #

  29. SRD
    Moderator

    Custard "large shops and going on family days out" . Let me know if you want to borrow our trailer and try it out. Really very handy, even just for the shopping, and some bargains to be had on ebay/gumtree/NNS.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  30. Instography
    Member

    I could distinguish between people who travel to work by bicycle and those who don't commute but do say they have cycled. You couldn't see that in the map. The map shows all forms of cycling.

    I'm not sure what you have in mind for utility cycling beyond commuting but commuting by bike is far from evenly spread across socio-economic groups. Nationally, it is five times more common in affluent areas than it is the most deprived. In Edinburgh it is even more skewed (although the sample of bike commuters is very small).

    Posted 13 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

12

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin