CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
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CCE is 15years old!
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not resolvedCan't 'strict liability' be on the wishlist? Something that Parliament could legislate for without government having to spend anything much...
I also think the suggestion from Spokes to target cycle awareness training at professional drivers (HGV, bus, taxi, commercial delivery vehicles) is an excellent one. Again, could be legislation requiring mandatory training rather than a budget line. Lothian Buses as a model.
yup 18 people + drums.
Most of the djembes can be biked along on your back but I might need to borrow a large trailer for the basses. can be fun if its windy. If you want them to play at the same time however we are gonna need a large flatbed and some strong legs. Otherwise its play at teh end for the picknick.
T
Maybe one of these? Place the drums where the bar 'should' be.
Gonna need powerful drum and drag brakes for Edinburgh though!
Don't know about loud noises on the ride itself if the involvement and participation of bike-n00bs, codgers and youngsters (or even just people who care about not catching noise-related hearing loss) is to be encouraged.
There were some drummy/shouty people on the Make Poverty History march creating noise well above the pain threshold that were difficult enough to escape from on foot - doing so in a street filled with cycles would be much harder. One of the things making me think twice about attending this with the bairn is the potential for it to be overly shouty/dingy/scary which would undo some of the cycling=fun association I'm trying to instil.
Various marches/processions which went past my window when we lived on the Pleasance usually attracted my attention in the form of annoyance through the inclusion of shouty/drummy people or people with megaphones or the modern equivalent. We don't (well, I don't) want to irritate the people who live on the route - whilst a huge flock of bicycles makes more noise than a huge crowd of people walking it's still quieter than a huge flock of motor vehicles.
Maybe a smaller ensemble playing on the way round? I've sat on my carry freedom quite happily (albeit, ahem, not moving), so if the speed stays slow then we could probably keep a group close enough to stay together... Some straps to hang on to would be a good idea.
9) Government funded (TV)advertising campaigns to promote the benefits of cycle and encourage safer driving?
It is clear that the former is needed. Benefits are of course happiness, health, reduction in pollution, congestion and stress, lower bills (?) ....
@crowriver - we've got better road safety legislation and training (which will include for all road users, not just cyclists) both on the list. As I said, the devil's in the detail...
@amir - There's already been tons of campaigns about how wonderful cycling is - sometimes it seems that's ALL most cycling promotion programmes do, to very little effect that I've seen. On the safer driving side, something to educate drivers about what cyclists need might be done through a tv campaign (like 'think bike' for motorbikes)
"There's already been tons of campaigns about how wonderful cycling is - sometimes it seems that's ALL most cycling promotion programmes do, to very little effect that I've seen."
Something to do with market penetration? Perhaps the campaigns aren't reaching the right people.I haven't seen much on the TV (which is where I expect would have most effect, but I have absolutely no evidence apart from linking driving to use of sofas). In anycase, this is a process of erosion, much as the campaign against smoking has been.
Sally - a very good effort. I would suggest the following changes, just to tighten things up a bit and reflect the fact this is aimed at the Scottish and not the UK Government:
1) Scottish Government and local authorities to increase the proportion of transport capital and revenue expenditure invested in cycling to 10%
2) All new or substantially upgraded roads to include provision for cyclists in line with best practice set out in Cycling by Design
3) All road authorities to implement 20mph zones in appropriate areas
4) Provision for cyclists to feature in all local transport strategies
5) Scottish Government to engage with the UK Government on reviewing road traffic law to ensure it promotes road safety for all road users
6) Scottish Government to engage with UK Government with a view to requiring the installation of additional mirrors/safety devices on HGVs to improve pedestrian and cyclist safety
7) Full Scottish Government funding and roll-out of Bikeability Scotland
8) Scottish Government to engage with UK Government with a view to amending new driver training and testing to increase emphasis on the protection of vulnerable road users
9) Scottish Government to collect additional/improved cycle statistics to support decision and policy making
noise on the pain threshold is a big part of marching! ;) Thats what whistles were made for.
oooh. we'll bring our vuvuzela! (actually, we can't bring our real one <long story> but we have something similar we got at the ice hockey...
Seriously tho I was thinking more of playing at the Parliment itself, and this is a disciplined crew, not a lot of randoms with drums. Something to dance too :)
@sallyhinch
"Eight points:"
I think they illustrate my concern -
Three mentions of cycling + "cyclists and pedestrians"
Maybe this should be No. 1
3) Slower speeds where people live, work and play
Or even just something like - Better roads, pavements and general environments where people live, work and play
Yes 'we' are "cyclists' and we want more stuff for 'us' and to encourage more people to be like 'us'.
In Edinburgh 35 years of campaigning by Spokes has made a BIG difference.
Recent developments where campaigning seems to have made the Scottish Government do a U turn on Active Travel funding PLUS CEC finally getting round to spending a bit more on 'cycling' PLUS The Times campaign because one of their staff has knocked off PLUS yesterday's media coverage due to the second cycle death in Edinburgh this year all make it look as though things are moving in the right direction.
They are, BUT -
It's not just about people who ride - or might want to. It's also about pavements (preferably not cycling on them) crossings (particularly for pedestrians).
It's about challenging the 'norm' that (motor) traffic should be able to travel freely and smoothly - not least because (anecdotally) there are more incidences of aggression towards cyclists 'in my way' - maybe there are just more cyclists.
This is partly why I suggested involving Living Streets.
Also TransForm Scotland, the Cockburn Association.
Think wider too, for instance -
"
The Royal Society of Edinburgh (RSE) is Scotland's National Academy. Its mission is to advance learning and useful knowledge and by doing so it supports the cultural, economic and social well-being of Scotland and its people. It is not influenced by causes promoted by others and is an important source of independent expertise across the whole range of intellectual, business and public life in Scotland.
"
It's really not JUST about more stuff for cyclists!
It's only 5 days before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_local_elections,_2012 I'm sure lots of politicians will want to be seen on (their?) bikes by the electorate.
@morningsider - thanks. One point is that we have a few problems with Cycling By Design itself. It's better than what's actually being built but it's still way below the standard that would actually make cycling mainstream. This blog here puts it in more detail than I can on the forum.
The draft (stress that it IS a draft) is on google docs for now as it fills in the details
@chdot - we'll definitely be going to Transform Scotland, Living streets etc. As we're hanging it off the Times / London big bike ride I think it will probably have to be largely cycling-centric but I take your point about being more inclusive to pedestrians as well.
"I take your point about being more inclusive to pedestrians as well."
TransForm is well aware about the 'pedestrian deficit' in planning and campaigning terms.
Sometimes it seems LS is only interested in bikes if they are on pavements.
Perhaps you can broker a united front!(?)
would be good if we could! I think it's worth making clearer that one thing we DON'T want to see is any more use of 'shared use' paths, i.e. pavements with a picture of a bike painted on it, bringing bikes into conflict with people on foot. I could strengthen the bit about design to make that crystal clear...
"one thing we DON'T want to see is any more use of 'shared use' "
actually, I'm coming around the dave's perspective on this <shock! horror!>. Cyclists do ride much more carefully and considerately on the shared use bits around the meadows (eg that bit parallel to Melville dr between meadow place and argyle place) than on the segregated bits.
@SRD - However the pedestrian conflict still exists in the minds of those that aren't familiar with the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003...
I've had disapproving tuts and comments when using the formerly no-cycling paths - presumably because of long memories, or the impression that because some areas are dedicated to cycling, the pedestrian paths are dedicated too.
See also the long running Prom saga!
Robert
Does "more carefully" mean 'slower' due to having to weave in and out of pedestrians.
My personal view is that a line down the middle with bikes on one side and pedestrians on the other usually works pretty well and would probably work better if it was more widespread.
CB & Roibeard - I agreed with you both before I started using this bit of shared path on a daily basis.
i find on NMW, cyclists struggle to pass each other, and pedestrians can be very crabby even if you gently point out that it is a cycle path. on the (less well travelled) joint usage path, none of this ever happens.
issue of paths previously marked 'no cycling' now deemed joint is more complicated!
Of course we should cycle considerately when sharing with pedestrians but I can't see "shared use" ever leading to more cycling as having to crawl along at barely above walking pace definitely does not make cycling a more attractive alternative to driving!
Especially not when drivers are all proceeding at 20mph with no delays at all due to all those road blocking cyclists being out of the way. ;-)
"as having to crawl along at barely above walking pace "
Good point Min. It _is_ just like the pavements in Sweden and the (rel few) shared use pavements I saw in Copenhagen.
:)
New thread (sorry)
@sallyhinch, now that I see the detail in the Googol doc, I'm happier with the phrasing.
Don't forget the Scottish Parliament is a primary legislative body. Scotland also has its own separate legal system. I'm not sure where the dividing line is between Holyrood and Westminster regarding responsibility for road safety, speed limits, strict liability, and mandatory training, but even if these powers are not yet devolved the Parliament could pass a motion on them to send a political signal to Westminster, as has happened on other matters.
To my mind excessively shouty drummy processions are a pita, if people want to get drummy/shouty then can we do it at the finish? (also safer/simpler for those with big drums!)
Surely it would be much more pleasant (and relevant) if everyone just continually rung their bells? (and less painful! Much as I love my airzound it's not pleasant to be around for long...)
BELLS! I wonder how much it would cost to get loads of little PoP (Pedal on Parliament) bells made up for everyone???
Not that I want to seem immodest - but I do know where the dividing line is between Scottish and UK legislative competence. I'm happy to proof any final draft of the manifesto to make sure all technical/legal stuff is in order.
I also speak fluent civil service and politician and can advise on terminology if that would help.
Happy to sort this out via PM from appropriate people.
That would be a huge help Morningsider - jurisdictional matters are not my forte!
@morningsider - that would be excellent could you PM me? maybe Anth as well as I don't speak Lawyer
@anth - bells would be good, much more kid and family friendly than drums. We'd need a rich benefactor if we're to run to our own though ...
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