This may have been already discussed
http://www.forthone.com/news/man-drives-with-cyclist-on-bonnet/
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Man Drives With Cyclist On Bonnet
(31 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
-
Deferring sentence for background reports usually means that a custodial sentence is being considered.
Posted 13 years ago # -
You would hope so... speeding around with someone on the bonnet, trying to brake them under it - what if he'd succeeded, he could be on a murder* charge?
Does make you wonder who the hell would actually climb onto the bonnet of a nutter's car though. I assumed that the accused scooped him up driving at him!
* various permutations of "recklessly and furiously taking someone's life" are probably available.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yeah, I assumed the same thing.
Not murder, by the way, no premeditation.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The original event was discussed on here.
Entertaining bit of reporting! -
"The road hog drove for about 100 metres before the biker fell off and hit the ground"
"only needed treatment for a staved pinky"
Posted 13 years ago # -
@anth...really? I think the majority of cases where background reports are sought before sentencing usually means that they come up with mitigating circumstances like childhood trauma, poor quality life/treatment, to explain why someone has a personality disorder and behaves in so reckless a manner because they cannot empathise or understand what they are doing. Bet you he gets off and a slap on the back of the hand, also he plead guilty straight away, always a plus.
What a mad fou the cyclist was frankly, been watching too many Squint Eastwood movies or the like. India rubber man!!
Posted 13 years ago # -
@Liz, it's not always the case, but if someone hasn't served time before then it's got to be done as a matter of course.
I would say that if there are, "... mitigating circumstances like childhood trauma, poor quality life/treatment, to explain why someone has a personality disorder and behaves in so reckless a manner because they cannot empathise or understand what they are doing" that genuinely do mean someone is not looking at the world in a 'normal' manner then a custodial sentence possibly isn't the best way to deal with things.
We're not Texas. We don't hang the mentally ill.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Interesting, reading up on background reports and found an article saying that in 2006 use of background checks had increased 70% from 1996 ('94-'00 being my student years when we were told about them briefly). Looks like it's a much more common thing now.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Hi.
Iain's a friend of mine, and it seems odd the latest accounts say that he jumped onto the car. He (and the articles from last year) said he was driven into.Also regarding premeditation - he was followed by the guy for several minutes before being driven into (at one point the assailant got out on foot). Really horrible. (how long do they have to think about it before it becomes premeditated?)
He started cycling again almost straight away (only a few days later), but I must say he seems to have become pretty bitter/militant about cars/driving. :/
(not really a surprise. We all need to try to stay as chilled and calm as possible!!)Posted 13 years ago # -
The premeditation isn't to 'follow' him, or even necessarily to cause 'harm', the premeditation to be murder is the premeditation to 'kill'. The driver would have to have the clear intention that he wanted the victim to be killed, that his actions would result in the death.
You can just about be done for murder if your actions are so extraordinarily reckless that it is 'highly likely' that someone will be killed.
I suggest in this case the driver was ridiculously dangerous, and that he is lucky the chap wasn't killed. But I don't think (probably, none of us were in the court - although you might have been lionfish?) that he actually intended to kill the cyclist, and also proving that his actions would most likely have resulted in the death of the cyclist would have been difficult given the cyclist walked away with a staved pinkie (was that really his only injury? Seems surprising).
If, and thankfully this is merely hypothetical, he had killed the chap then a culpable homicide charge may have been a possibility. Causing death by dangerous driving would, I think, have been impossible to vary down to 'careless'.
Have to admit the suggestion he jumped on the bonnet seems a surprise as well - can only presume that came out in court for it to be reported - maybe it was in the driver's evidence? Things witnesses and accused say in court always get reported as fact without anything to back it up.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I write what are now called Criminal Justice Social Work Reports (formerly known as Social Enquiry Reports).
There are numerous reasons a Sheriff or Judge may defer sentence for a report and also certain circs where they are obliged to - including considering sending anyone to prison for the first time or sending someone under 21 to prison. Equally if they are considering any sort of community supervision then a report will be requested. So asking for a report in itself does not necessarily indicate a likely outcome.
The legal basis for CJSWRs is included within the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 and simply states they are,
for the purpose of enabling enquiries to be made or of determining the most suitable method of dealing with a case.Posted 13 years ago # -
Hi,
No I wasn't at court, so I don't know what was said there. I'll ask him about this next time I see him. I find both explanations impossible to imagine to be honest.I really think we all need to stay chilled in these situations (impossible really to do). I think one thing that would help would be to know how to respond legally: I don't know at what point I should dial 999? Or what do you do after the event? I think knowing that there is a legal *calm* alternative to an argument would make things easier. Example: My partner had a car stop in front of her and the driver open his passenger door to block the bike lane. The driver shouted abuse at her (people were watching!) and a traffic warden came over, suggested to the man that he might want to close his door (closed it for him), then took a note of the number plate, witnesses phone numbers etc, and said he'd report it. [who to?!]
I've had two cases while cycling in which a deliberate dangerous act of driving has happened. In both, people came over to ask if I was ok, and offer phone numbers as witnesses (unbidden)! But I turned them down, as no one had the number plate etc. And I didn't really know what to do with them.
Basically: The question I have is: Who do you phone if you have a frightening altercation like these ones?
(sorry I went off topic, but after Iain's and L's cases, I feel we need to figure this out). Thanks everyone. [to be honest, having a message board to rant on might be good enough :P - I've luckily not had any trouble on the roads for a year or so, so not needed to :D and I hope to mainly use the forum to talk about the wildlife I spot more than the odd grumpy driver!]
Posted 13 years ago # -
"The legal basis for CJSWRs is included within the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995"
Ah, that would explain the increase since 1996 - I presume before then they existed but in a different form?
@lionfish - I don't know. Which isn't much help. I reported one incident to the police, but there were no witnesses, nowt happened. Keeping calm, if possible, is always the best option though I think.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Worth an email -
"
For all non-emergency issues or enquiries relating to police business, you can contact us via: Email: enquiries@lbp.pnn.police.uk"
Posted 13 years ago # -
On an individual level, I don't think it's worth reporting anything to the police unless an ambulence was required.
I once bothered to report a motorcyclist for some pretty rediculous riding (and then road rage) and nothing came of it even with video footage from start to finish.
Possibly there may be some kind of aggregate benefit to reporting lots of dangerous driving with no follow up, but I'm not sure.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Anyone stupid enough to jump on someone's bonnet deserves what they get.
Posted 13 years ago # -
So as long as I swear that you jumped on my bonnet, I can do what I like? Nice.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The forthone story had a Scotsman Linkto a 2007 story where a man of the same name and equivalent age was in court for attempted murder.
if it really is the same guy he is a horrible, dangerous person.Posted 13 years ago # -
evening news story* is virtually identical to account they ran originally (as far as i remember). no mention of 'jumping'.
*tacked on at bottom of story about fines etc
Posted 13 years ago # -
Lionfish - hope you've encouraged your friend to sign the petition and come to POP?
Posted 13 years ago # -
hmm. Same name, same age (27 in 2007, 32 in 2012). If he's got previous for attempted murder they may give him more than a "the driver and cyclist mistook each others' intent" gentle caress?
Posted 13 years ago # -
Further...if it is the same assailant then here is what happened to him.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/boxing-champion-s-brother-jailed-for-vicious-pub-attack-1-1338190
I wonder if he still lives in Tollcross, that would fit in with area of the pursuit.
"You are an habitual criminal, who accepts arrest as an occupational hazard, and presumably accepts imprisonment in the same casual manner. We therefore feel constrained to commit you to the maximum term allowed for these offences:"
The judge will, of course, be party to the man's previous charges or incarcerations...If it is the same man which seems likely then his previous stretch possible stretches have done nothing to improve his attitude. I would feel safer, however, if he were locked up.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think it is the same bloke TBH :/ wild story !
Posted 13 years ago # -
If same chap, I wonder how long he was out of jail for before he pursued the cyclist through tollcross area then tracked him down to Johnston Terrace which cars are not allowed up? Lesson is of course easy to state, harder to follow - stay chilled if possible as you don't know who is out there behind the wheel. Glad the cyclist got back on his bike within days.
Posted 13 years ago # -
On the premise it's the same individual I feel an old Smeatonian urge to buy lionfish's pal a pint for being the lightning rod that got him back behind bars, even though it was unsurpassingly unlikely to have been on his To Do List for that day.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@uberuce, he is still out there awaiting sentencing as background reports have been sought. If same chap, the background is that he was sentenced to 3.5 years in 2007 for aggravvated assault/attempt murder in Kings Arms Karaoke Night. If same chap, stay chilled as he is still maybe driving around town? [unless he is on remand? didn't see that being the case?]
Posted 13 years ago # -
More of a commiseration pint than celebration pint, but Hindu bovine serenity most certainly has udders bulging with merit.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@SRD: Yep, he and his wife already know about it :) They're regular writers to their representatives and his wife was at the protest outside St. Andrew's house.
@gembo: The original hearing was a couple of months ago, and I think they said he was refused bail. (I think it was maybe partly because they had trouble tracking him down - they knew the car, but couldn't find the guy...)
Posted 13 years ago # -
@lionfish - good to hear that he is likely to have been remanded pending sentence. However, this will all go towards him getting out earlier should he get a custodial as it is taken into account, which means he will be out all the sooner to wreak havoc in others' lives, as he most assuredly will.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Erm, Claggy Clog....
Say he's given a 5 year sentence (just for the purposes of explanation).
If he was bailed then he'd be out just now for 6 months, then in prison for 5 years.
If remanded in custody he'd be inside for 6 months, then in 'prison' for 4.5 years.
Either way he's actually in prison for the same length of time, whether it's 'official' or on remand. I'd personally rather he was inside waiting to be sentenced, than back out on the streets right now... On remand certainly does mean 'out earlier' but also means 'in earlier' as well as 'in for the same length of time either way'.
If it's the same chap as the 2007 bod then that will most certainly be taken into account in sentencing.
Posted 13 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
