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"Maintenance free" bike saga continues

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  1. Dave
    Member

    So, my second Sturmey hub is dead - not many miles after they sent me a "missing washer" to fix my S2C, the pawls inside have cracked, leaving loose metal to lock up the hub while I was speeding along the flat bit of road outside Ocean Terminal!

    Fortunately I was wearing a helmet, which undoubtedly prevented me losing control of the bike. Still, this leaves me in an increasing pickle:

    - fork out £80 for an S3C/AWC three speed coaster, meaning I'll have tried every coaster hub brake Sturmey make. Third time lucky, or fool me thrice?

    - fork out £200 or so for an Alfine 8, plus a disc brake and lever (at least £50 more). Unappetising on a £700 hack bike

    - go crazy and spend £1000 on a Rohloff, plus a disc brake and lever (at least £50 more). Marginally more appetising than the Alfine, because I can think of the Rohloff as an investment to migrate around many different bikes in time. But ££££.

    - go back to fixed, even though I hated it when my journey is downhill all the way, then uphill all the way

    - go singlespeed, and fit a disc brake and lever (£50).

    - buy another S2C for £70, and hope mine was a one-off

    - sell the frame (pity it's been drilled for internal cable routing!) and rebuild around something with a derailleur hanger

    - sell the bike, eat a few hundred quid loss and buy a Croix de Fer instead

    Any opinions?

    Bah!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Instography
    Member

    Surely it's covered by some kind of warranty from Sturmey Archer? Actually, it would be the vendors responsibility. Even if it's out of formal warranty any mention of the Sale of Goods Act and the need for a product to be fit for purpose usually gets a good response.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. crowriver
    Member

    I'm frankly staggered that your hub gears have been giving you such woe. The whole point of hub gears is supposed to be reliability. Mind you I haven't tried the recent SA offerings, maybe they are not built as well as the old ones?

    I've an old AW on the BSA 20 which seems pretty bombproof, but it's pre-Taiwan. My other SA is a front hub brake on the Pashley Fold-it, again probably made in the UK. My other hub gears are both Sachs/SRAM, and the 3 speed (with coaster brake) seems to be very reliable, though I haven't tried hauling a trailer (the axle protruding from the frame is too short to get the hitch onto anyway). Haven't used the Sachs Spectro 5 speed (with hub brake) on the Fold-it much yet, but I assume it will be fine.

    I'd definitely get in touch with your supplier about warranty replacement if I were you.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. crowriver
    Member

    BTW I noticed some hub gears in a drawer at the Bike Station the other day, amongst the old AWs was a Sachs/SRAM 7 speed (with what looked like a coaster or hub brake too), complete with shifters. Had the clickbox and everything. No idea if it works, but I assume so, looked in good nick. Maybe an alternative to forking out another £70? No idea how much they'd ask for it, but probably not much. I was seriously tempted myself.

    Oh they also had an ex-demo Paper Bike in there. Hub brakes, enclosed chain case, steel mudguards, cool design, etc. Single speed meant I wasn't as interested as I would have been otherwise, but a very good price.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. alanr
    Member

    it certainly seems surprising; I've got SA hub brakes and they're great, and SA have a great reputation to maintain; maybe there's mileage in pointing that out to them, or your supplier? the other options certainly seem too attractive.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. Dave
    Member

    I've emailed the shop asking to arrange a return, I'm sure it won't be a problem as they were very prompt sending out the "missing part" first time around.

    Painful. I'm too nervous of my knees to be happy riding Broughton St regularly on a singlespeed (at least, one that would be worth riding down from the Royal Mile to the seaside in the morning).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Oldschool made in Nottingham-from-Girders 3 speed Sturmey AW reclaimed from an oldbike?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. Uberuce
    Member

    You missed one: the S3X three fixed gear.

    http://www.lfgss.com/thread32281.html

    Have you thought about jumping ship to SRAM?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. gembo
    Member

    I had similar trouble with nexus8. First one replaced under warranty and came attached to new wheel which was nice but after the next wintertime second one went and I was outwith warranty.same dilemma, go for third time lucky or switch. I was assisted by the bike chain to switch to sturmey three speed. Should have gone for sturmey five speed at my age and with the bike being super heavy or as uberuce suggests. SRAM. Is still good for the shopping. Which reminds me,I have wasted another ortlieb by over stuffing it with shopping and leaving pointy things off pens etc lying around in the bottom. Still got one left and have put pens in sons old neoprene pencil case, when extracted at meetings no one in douce old Edinburgh says a thing.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    fleaBay: NOS Sturmey Archer AW 3 speed, made in 1990, 36h, £26.49 posted.

    Shifter, toggle chains, locknuts etc can be picked up cheaply.

    Or else spend a bit more and get a new hub with rear drum brake, fittings and shifters.

    Or bid on an entire wheel with built in hub gear, brake, fittings, shifters.

    Alternative is the Bike Station for used hubs. That Spectro P7 looked nice, if it's still there (spotted last Wednesday).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. Uberuce
    Member

    There's the medium crazy Alfine 11 option?

    Oilbath rather than a greaser like the 8, so it ought to last longer, although presumably not as long as the legendary Rohloff.

    I'd hazard a guess that the root problem is that S-A make gears for pootlers, and you are a tree-hauling Strava junkie. Need something that's built on the assumption of hefty wattage being put through it, so unless SRAM also make performance hubs, then I guess it's Shimano or Rohloff.

    I'm still a big advocate of single speed for a low maintainence commuter, but I don't know how well that fits with the trailer.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. Dave
    Member

    I'm thinking I should just move jobs to somewhere closer in height to the flat (or vice versa), and singlespeed it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. crowriver
    Member

    Trawling the net yesterday evening, it seems reliability issues with the S2C hub (with coaster brake) are not unknown. Maybe it's the "back pedal a bit to change gears, back pedal even more to brake" conundrum?

    Don't know if going Alfine is the way forward, the 11 speed is expensive and relatively untried. 8 speed Alfines also had a lot of issues around water ingress and not being properly sealed, don't know if they've fixed that.

    Hub gears are used on cargo bikes, so I don't think it's a weight or performance issue. Have to say in your situation I'd be tempted by a 3 or 5 speed SRAM or SA hub gear with drum or coaster brakes (if you prefer fewer cables/levers).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Uberuce
    Member

    A mild internet trawl mentioned the ingress problems in historical terms, so I guess it's fixed.

    The oilbathiness and helical gearing of the 11 appeals, but it does hurt my wallet, especially since the 400% gear range seems absurdly long.

    If only they'd pull a Croix de Fer -> CdF/Day-One Disc like Genesis did and make versions that kept the good bits.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Dave
    Member

    I rode in today on as a 69-er with a singlespeed conversion dongle on the back (!)

    I've continued my relentless campaign of masochism and self-flagellation by ordering a SRAM Automatix... unfortunately I have no idea what the flange measurements are like (and therefore if I need new spokes).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. Tom
    Member

    I've not used an SA three speed since I was a teenager. Do you still have to back-pedal when changing gear with these new hub gears?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    I've continued my relentless campaign of masochism and self-flagellation by ordering a SRAM Automatix...

    Aha! Good man. With coaster brake or without?

    Interesting shifting gears using centrifugal force! Like the SA s2c, the SRAM hub is a revival of a 1960s innovation which failed to find sufficient market. Originally developed by Sachs in 1966: http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/fs-torpedo-automatic/

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Dave
    Member

    With coaster. I really like coaster braking on a town bike, you don't have to worry about or adjust it and it works just the same in all weather.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. crowriver
    Member

    @Dave, agreed, except that on the s2c hub I imagine there's some conflict between back pedalling to change gear, and doing so to brake... The SRAM solution seems much more elegant, and one can adjust the speed threshold for gear shifting too. Good luck with it, hopefully it will be better than SA's offering. I think SRAM hubs are still made in Schweinfurt, Germany.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. Dave
    Member

    It's here, looking pretty shiny.

    I couldn't find any information on the dimensions ahead of time but have now determined the flanges are 27mm from the centre (symmetrical) and the spoke circle diameter is 70mm. By approximate measurement only.

    This is close enough to the S2C that I can reuse the same spokes and rim.

    In other news SA are sending me a new S2C hub internal, so I may end up with two hub gears. Can't decide whether to go for a winter wheel or sell whichever I like least.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. crowriver
    Member

    I suppose it's a decision on whether you get along with the automatic transmission or feel more comfortable shifting by back pedalling a wee bit... You'll get the chance to find out, anyway!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Instography
    Member

    I had my first spin on my five-speed SA last night. Felt nice and hub brakes are good although I did keep kicking the fulcrum lever. I'll need to bend that closer to the chainstay.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. Dave
    Member

    Good luck!

    I do enjoy the front drum. It's not snappy like a disc brake, but it's plenty powerful enough for traffic and it just always works (7 months and counting without adjustment)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Instography
    Member

    Dismantled the back wheel (geez you just never want a puncture on these things), took the fulcrum lever off and gave it a couple of swift whacks with a 2lb hammer. Bent nicely to sit snugly along the chain stay so no more kicking. Got the mudguards on and went tootling around the village tuning the gears.

    All seems nice and you hardly notice the dynamo on the front. Must get some lights to stop wasting all that energy.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. alibali
    Member

    Your not wasting energy with no lights fitted, but I guess you know that?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    You are wasting a wee bit of energy, no? You've still got to work against the resistance of the magnets inside the hub.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. steveo
    Member

    Unloaded dynamos are really pretty inefficient, one graph I saw suggested that with one of the older shimano hubs it was better to have a single led on than run it unloaded.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Yeah it depends on he hub, some have a way of retracting all the magnets, but modern hubs provide so little resistance it really makes no odds at all.

    In the spirit of this thread wish my hub was easier to maintain, its getting a bit squeeky in its old age and I fear I'm gonna have to take it apart sometime and grease it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. bromptonite
    Member

    @Steveo - Unloaded dynamos are really pretty inefficient. . .
    Too d*** right - I have a 2yo Bropmton with Shimano dynamo, try spinning the front wheel - you can actually feel the drag - 3-4 turns and it stops, purely down to the dynamo, it would almost have been worth the EXTRA £260 for the Sohn to save 1.5lb in weight and the effort of pushing the leaden lump of Shimano "technology" round.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. crowriver
    Member

    Which is why they still make bottle dynamos: once disengaged from the tyre/rim, zero rolling resistance...

    Posted 12 years ago #

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