CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Thoughts on the Quality Bike Corridor

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "
    As a result, Sydney is working to provide 200km of cycle lanes by 2030, with 55km separated from traffic. Although Campbell admits that segregated cycle lanes are not ideal, with the risk of producing a "them and us" mentality, they have been successful in persuading previous non-cyclists to get out on their bikes. Research done by the council has shown that the likelihood of a resident commuting by bike increases exponentially with the proportion of their commuting trip made possible on a separated bike lane.
    The new lanes have been combined with decreased speed limits and extensive junction redesigns which give cyclists priority and improve visibility. One advantage of the new junctions is that there has been a decreased number of accidents involving all modes of transport, not just bikes.

    "

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/jun/28/sydney-noncyclists-bikes

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. cb
    Member

    "New review - well worth a read!"

    Stealing SRD's thunder?

    Also worth a read from that blog:

    http://drpetermatthews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/stupid-cyclists.html

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. crowriver
    Member

    @chdot, you should have read the comments:

    "As someone who cycles in Sydney every weekday I can say this sounds impressive but you don't see that on the street. I've cycled in the UK and most countries in Europe, and Sydney is by far the most dangerous place I've ever ridden in - the mindset here is of unreserved anger and hostility to cyclists. Here's two articles that give a more realistic perspective:"

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-the-city-that-hates-bikes-20100312-q45h.html

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/nation-backpedalling-on-bike-riding-20120627-212wu.html

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. crowriver
    Member

    I suppose if we want a positive vision of what Edinburgh could be like, one day, maybe, then we need to look more analytically at the Netherlands and their policies on segregation. That does not necessarily mean separate cycle paths or lanes, but it does mean draconian speed limits and removal of through routes for motor vehicles.

    As ever, David Hembrow has a wealth of material unpacking the main principles of the Dutch system here:

    http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/search/label/segregationwithoutcyclepaths

    Safety for cyclists and pedestrians in cities does not mean building separate infrastructure everywhere, but it does mean severely curtailing motorised transport.

    That requires leadership from politicians and officials. Alas, all I see in Edinburgh much of the time is the so-called leaders running scared of angry motorists and rabble rousing headlines in the local paper.

    Jan Gehl had a bold and inspiring vision for pedestrianising the city centre: whatever happened to that? Now we have councillors briefing off the record that Princes Street might be re-opened to cars...

    One faltering step forward, ten steps back...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. steveo
    Member

    Also worth a read from that blog:

    http://drpetermatthews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/stupid-cyclists.html

    Spotted a couple of photos taken of Calder road before the car madness took over. Didn't realise it was ever quite so civilised!
    This is the first roundabout if your westbound and effectively the top of my street, I go the other way through Stenhouse: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/5750333408/in/photostream/
    I'm still trying to work out where this is!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/5750347144/

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    Ooh look there's a car parked on the pavement!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. ARobComp
    Member

    As you come around potterow and onto bristo place - you have to cross lanes if you're on a bike - you have two choices
    1) stay far left until you pass a random little seperator block pavement bit and then attempt to filter across the lane of traffic to where the cycle lane starts approximately outside the chip shop.
    2) You have to move right before the junction- however they've dug up the road since re=doing the "quality lane" and filled it in so badly someone on thin tyres who is distracted while moving slowly right looking for traffic flow could clip their tyres quite badly and go over in traffic.

    Quality? Right up until they dig it up again!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. AKen
    Member

    I'm still trying to work out where this is!:

    If you look closely, you can see the Pagoda-like tower of the Silver Wing pub in the middle of the picture, I pass here most days. An underpass now runs where you can see a well-used path running down the grassy slope from the main road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. steveo
    Member

    Aahhhh, yes I see it now.
    Compare

    Best shot I could get of the same general area from street view.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. minus six
    Member

    @Bristo Place random little separator block pavement

    At first glance this toytown bit of infrastructure is merely ill-conceived, but it truly is a nasty piece of work.

    A definitive example of why Edinburgh just doesn't get it.

    I wonder if it was the brainwave of the same team who installed the spectacularly misjudged bus stop a few yards further on, late last year.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    Wouldn't Spokes and others have seen these plans before they went in?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    I cycled a chunk of this yesterday (from fountainhall road to melville terrace) and was left underwhelmed. Actually more disappointed than underwhelmed.

    The bits that are new and different work well - I felt very good in the nice wide, lane leading north from Fountainhall Rd. It went out around parked cars and I felt well-respected by passing cars. But as we got further north, there were more and more cars parked outside the usual places*, causing the usual blockages. The lane also disappears in places, and is a patch of old and new styling. Better than it was before, but not the 'quality' we need.

    * eg the wine shop, the block up to tesco, courtyard antiques usw...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Funnily enough I was going to post something similar today. I popped to the Bike Station after work, and heading south, after the crossroads of Causewayside/Grange Road/Salisbury Place, the lane simply disappears (and worse, there are designated car parking bays). Plus, riding in both directions there are cars parked everywhere.

    Roibeard and I are planning a recce one morning next week. The argument will be that it's not 'opened' yet, to which the natural response will be "So when it's opened will the stopping restrictions be enforced more than they are now?" If the answer is no, then claiming it'll be better once 'open' (in September) is a pointless statement.

    On the plus side, the surface within the lane is rather nice. But that's it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    Thanks for confirming that Anth, I took a quick look at the south bound side and was puzzled not to see anything. But was late for a meeting, so pressed on.

    I think this calls for a kaputnik-esque documenting?

    As a non-driver, I'd quite like someone else to come along and make sure that I am not misinterpreting the various parking restrictions though. Some of the ones I saw were probably legal, in so far as the restrictions seems limited to rush hour. (must get my act in gear and document the regular infractions on gilmore place; maybe we could get some time lapse photography that would show the regularity with which cars are parked on the yellows during the restricted periods? I suppose the time/date function on the camera might work too...hmmmm)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. ruggtomcat
    Member

    I was talking about this to a non-combatant (pedestrian) the other day and realized that I pretty much ignore all on-road cycle infrastructure in favor or pretending to be a car. When its downhill I'm going fast enough to keep up with traffic and when its up hill its so full of parking and pinch points as to require you to take the lane anyway. I'll use he buss lane, but will stay in the right of it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Council Department A spends thousands re-instating Teviot Place cut-through to MMW, resurfacing, painting, dropping kerb etc.

    Council Department B comes along the next day and blocks it off with security fencing to act as flyposting substrate.

    This is Edinburgh!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. minus six
    Member

    Oh no.. here come the festival w@nks

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. cc
    Member

    And I was looking forward to trying out that dropped kerb entry to MMW next week. I think instead I'd better avoid the Meadows entirely until the autumn. MMW will be full of dumb festival goers walking in the bike lane anyway.

    Festival, bah. The barely landscaped mud pit outside my office window is about to house a Festival Fun Palace, in fact we're going to be almost entirely surrounded by Venues. The massive lorries have already started arriving. I've ordered a pair of super high strength ear defenders to wear at my desk in the optimistic hope that this year I won't have to quit my office entirely for two months because of massively amplified show noise, sound checks, tannoys and loudhailers, etc. etc.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. cc
    Member

    On the topic of the Quality Cycle Corridor, which I'm meant to be: it's as if the designers could easily see some semi-sensible things to do on the wide parts of the route, but as soon as things got narrow they just gave up. Where the road wasn't wide enough to shoehorn in lots of car parking and two-way motor traffic and cycle paths in both directions, the cycle paths have just been forgotten about, or hidden under the parked cars in time-honoured Edinburgh fashion.

    From what I've seen, walking or cycling the route several times every day, there is more or less zero enforcement at the moment. For example delivery vans for the Hua Xing supermarket always seem to be parked on double yellow lines, totally blocking the pretty new cycle lane, even when there's a hundred yards of completely empty parking starting only a few yards away from the door. I see it every day. It's arrogant, contemptible behaviour. I'm certainly never going to shop there now.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. cc
    Member

    More constructively / less hopelessly I've now Clarenced the Teviot Place / MMW fence blockage as an urgent problem. The Clarence ref number is 370314 if that helps anyone. Thanks kaputnik for alerting us.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @CC I also Clarenced and noticed someone else had reported it on fixmystreet on Friday!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Instography
    Member

    Would it be terrible to pick up the fence and just dump it on the grass? Looks like it would fold flat.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @Instography - Fencing is strapped onto the concrete blocks, they may just be heavy duty gable ties though. A socket set would help to quickly dis-assemble it for neat, safe stowage out of harm's way.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. recombodna
    Member

    "Oh no.. here come the festival w@nks"....

    Oh NO!! Here come the "Oh no.. here come the festival w@nks" W@nks......

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Indeed. I love the festival.

    Though could do without bike routes being blocked by railings put up for flyers.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. wingpig
    Member

    The blocks the fence is attached to are quite small. The fence would only need to be lifted a couple of feet to get it over the bollard so that it could be slid over a little to leave at least one bollardsworth of usable gap. Maybe give the council a couple of days to shift it before arranging a miniature hoick-meet?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. Arellcat
    Moderator

    A socket set would help to quickly dis-assemble it for neat, safe stowage out of harm's way.

    There are lots of really nice wide open spaces for re-erecting the fence for festival advertising out of the way of cyclists. Say, across one lane of the West Approach Road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. Morningsider
    Member

    It is an offence to obstruct a road without the written consent of the roads authority (Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 - Section 129(2)). I doubt the people who put up this fencing have that authority as it would seem totally illogical to grant it when the fencing could be erected just out of the way of the path, as it is further down MMW.

    Might be worht drawing this to the attention of the council.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    "Might be worht drawing this to the attention of the council"

    They are currently investigating...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Maybe give the council a couple of days to shift it before arranging a miniature hoick-meet?

    I was kinda thinking if it's not gone tonight, then it will be gone by the morning. Hint hint...

    Posted 12 years ago #

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