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"Are Electric Cars the future of Low Carbon Transport?"

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  • Started 14 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from Baldcyclist
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  1. PS
    Member

    Beyond electrified heating, trials are either on the drawing board or underway for replacing natural gas with hydrogen for heat networks. It's also being used as a fuel for some industrial processes: a hydrogen-fired steelworks has just become operational in Sweden, with claims that it could lead to a 10% reduction in the country's carbon footprint.

    Ideally, the hydrogen would be produced by electrolysis from spare (overnight) renewables capacity, but at least initially they'll need carbon capture and storage infrastructure in place so they can derive the H2 from natural gas.

    If enough of it can be produced, then hydrogen would work as a storage medium for renewable power.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    we’ve exhausted all suitable locations for building any more

    Really? I'm no expert but I find that hard to imagine. Glen Doe looked very unpromising before they built it.

    No shortage of big lochs downhill from small lochs. I guess you need relatively unfractured rock to tunnel in but that's been overcome for many schemes. Tell us more?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  3. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    I posted some of the proposed pumped storage projects on the previous page. Retrofitting existing hydro schemes is another option, maybe preferable, as a) dams etc already exist and b) they are likely to occupy the greatest available heads.

    SSE had permission to convert Loch Sloy but I'm not sure if it ever went ahead?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  4. steveo
    Member

    What's the efficiency of a pumped storage? Hydrogen production might be more effective since we already have the facility to store massive amounts of natural gas so wouldn't need a large scale engineering project with the resulting environmental impact.

    Might be better with local battery storage though, whether that is a powerwall (other brands might be available) or an ev people could charge them at low cost/co2 output and draw down as a sort of peaking power plant.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity#Economic_efficiency

    Pumped storage has a very long life once built. Batteries kind of don't apart from lead-acid ones.

    Also heard of compressed xenon and carbon flywheels in vacuum pods.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  6. steveo
    Member

    True but batteries can be recycled how long before the local damage is reversed? Plus you only have one lot of transmission losses if the battery is in the home.

    Habitat damage (change) etc could take hundreds of years to get back to where they were. On the other hand if its in Scotland the grouse wastelands would likely be no great loss.

    Besides cold fusion is only ten years away...

    According to wiki there isn't much difference between the efficiency of electrolysis and pumped storage.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water

    Pick your poison I guess.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  7. neddie
    Member

    Hydrogen tricky to store & distribute though, as it’s even more “leaky” than Helium

    Posted 3 years ago #

  8. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Hydrogen also has a well-documented tendency to pool in ceilings and explode.

    I wouldn't have a bottle of the stuff in a laboratory.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  9. steveo
    Member

    Hydrogen tricky to store & distribute though, as it’s even more “leaky” than Helium

    good point. I presume because its so light its more difficult to work with than natural gas?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  10. PS
    Member

    Hydrogen tricky to store & distribute though, as it’s even more “leaky” than Helium

    I'd hope the scientist/engineer Johnnies are taking that into account in their plans. If not, we should have a grandstand seat when the houses in Levenmouth go boom.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @steveo

    Hydrogen's skittishness is down to;

    High effusion (leakage)
    Low density
    Lack of smell
    Wide explosion limits
    Low activation energy for ignition

    Posted 3 years ago #

  12. wingpig
    Member

    I would only use hydrogen personally if I were generating it as required at the point of use, as well as monitoring the volumes of input ingredients and output products to make sure none was escaping. Even the earth as an whole isn't very good at hanging onto it. If you don't catch it in your ceilings and let it get outside it's as good as gone.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/11/ami-the-tiny-cube-on-wheels-that-french-14-year-olds-can-drive

    Posted 3 years ago #

  14. Snowy
    Member

    I love it. 29mph is probably quite scary in one of those! But why can we not speed-limit all cars in a city? Technologically trivial. What are the arguments against it?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    “What are the arguments against it?“

    ‘Infringing personal liberty’...

    Posted 3 years ago #

  16. Snowy
    Member

    Indeed, I was going to seed the discussion with 'Freeeeeedom!'. But we are happy to remove many other things that are dangerous to humans 'in case' they are misused. What else?

    Posted 3 years ago #

  17. jdanielp
    Member

    Five year, interest free, loans of up to £20,000 for used electric vehicles are coming from 28th September... This would have been quite handy a month ago, but never mind.

    https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/scotland-interest-free-government-loans-used-evs/

    Posted 3 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/16/scottish-green-hydrogen-scheme-gears-up-to-fuel-ferries-buses-and-trains

    Posted 3 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The UK is poised to bring forward its ban on new fossil fuel vehicles from 2040 to 2030 to help speed up the rollout of electric vehicles across British roads.

    Boris Johnson is expected to accelerate the shift to electric vehicles this autumn with the announcement, one of a string of new clean energy policies to help trigger a green economic recovery from the coronavirus pandemic.

    “

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/21/uk-plans-to-bring-forward-ban-on-fossil-fuel-vehicles-to-2030

    Posted 3 years ago #

  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Mr Moonbat lays down the law;

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/23/electric-cars-transport-train-companies

    Posted 3 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Tariff hit for electric vehicles likely to be £2,800 per car, with risks to UK’s net zero plans

    “

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/22/car-buyers-face-10-additional-cost-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit

    Posted 3 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/05/electric-cars-record-market-share-norway

    Posted 3 years ago #

  23. neddie
    Member

    Mostly SUVs that are being sold in Norway. Even if electric, this is not good.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  24. LaidBack
    Member

    Agree - EVs are VAT free in Norway plus you can use toll roads for free.
    So government has priced them into market.
    Elsewhere in Scandinavia energy consumption is high despite the 'clean' environment. Greta Thunberg points out that the average Swede uses a few planets worth (or more than the av Scot). They love travel and will drive huge distances to get to Italy etc
    In our 2018 cycling holiday we saw plenty of big Danish SUVs - with bikes hung on the back. Felt like home but without overt hostility to cyclists and a more outdoor oriented society. Even some rubbish cycleways in Jutland.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times

    Posted 3 years ago #

  26. jdanielp
    Member

    Edinburgh drivers in line for £2000 eco-car grants as city centre bans motors. Incentives of up to two £500 vouchers to purchase a bike, e-bike or public transport voucher are also available: https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-locals-urged-apply-2000-19649780

    Which is presumably this: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/low-emission-zone-support-fund-for-households/

    Posted 3 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    Seems like a scrappage scheme, plus a wee bung towards buying a bike or a PT season ticket...

    Better idea than subsidising the purchase of EVs, certainly.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/22/electric-vehicles-close-to-tipping-point-of-mass-adoption

    Posted 3 years ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    Our motor is probably BER Toyota saying we can have two grand scrappage but clearly that means a new lecky motor.

    Posted 3 years ago #

  30. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/ireland-s-catalytic-converter-thieves-they-re-like-formula-1-mechanics-1.4464308

    Posted 3 years ago #

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