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"Are Electric Cars the future of Low Carbon Transport?"

(677 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from Baldcyclist
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  1. Baldcyclist
    Member

    On the subject of batteries, I did see it commented by a motoring journo, that Tesla was simply the disruptor, and it's 'real' interest is in batteries.

    Once all of the major car manufacturers are producing mass market electric vehicles Tesla cars will stop being produced, and Tesla will focus on selling those manufacturers batteries.

    With the new Model 3 set realistically to become the new Mondeo, sorry 3 series. I'm not sure Tesla will want to give up that slice of the pie, when it can potentially do both...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. steveo
    Member

    cheers neddie thats interesting, didn't realise the battery life had been sorted so to speak. Having said that cars in other countries regularly do much higher mileage than the UK.

    A combination of cars being cheap and labour being expensive here has tended to scrap my cars in the past, beyond economical repair for minor stuff like a rusted panel or shot suspension. I sold a car for want of new tyres and a battery (got £200 for it which I spent on a camera lens)

    With less moving parts and lighter weight polymers the battery might become the limiting factor again, though that would be a good problem to have.

    but I don't think Lithium is the limiting factor in production

    Last I read the problem wasn't so much the raw lithium it was getting good quality lithium cheaply and that most of the supplies of good quality lithium were in "unstable" countries. Not helped that China refuses to export raw lithium (for obvious reasons)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. jdanielp
    Member

    I have read that even when an electric car battery is past its best for powering the car, it can still be reused in a less intensive application such as home or even grid level energy storage. Even after that, much of it is recyclable.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

  5. chdot
    Admin

  6. gembo
    Member

    I spotted an incredibly short skip lorry. Straiton, at the Dunelm Milne end, maybe only advertising, the skip itself not big. Children or oompaloompa sized.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. neddie
    Member

  8. crowriver
    Member

    Being subsidised by the UK government apparently.

    USB of the pop-up charging points is that they "reduce street clutter": though not, presumably when actually being used. Image at link below of what they are supposed to look like.

    https://www.treehugger.com/cars/uk-city-explores-retractable-pop-car-charging-stations.html

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. neddie
    Member

    Completely ludicrous!

    Can you imagine the extra expense of making something that will pop up out of the ground? And it will be "up" all the time anyway, since EVs take ages to charge (especially at only 5.8kW - 7 hours for a 40kWh battery).

    How long will it be before they get broken like the High St/Grassmarket retractable bollards and then become a great expensive white-elephant to the council / govt?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. LaidBack
    Member

  11. Tulyar
    Member

    Many issues - the debate on BBC yesterday was still locked into actually owning the car.

    Currently the e-car parc has car clubs as highest % of 'owners' and car club fleets are practically 100% LEV, with much of this hybrid or pure battery.

    Car clubs can ensure that batteries are changed/recycled by a regulated regime with the economies of scale, and the critical maintenance of the battery & control systems is correctly delivered.

    Modern high efficiency batteries tend to have low internal resistance, which means that a short circuiy can deliver a very high instantaneous current - rechargeable NiCd D cells can deliver over 1000 Amps, and this can set fire to battery lights. Wrongly set-up Vauxhall Zafiras can self immolate.

    So with e-cars, the official promotion might be better directed to offering a credit for using car club cars, rather than a £3500 bung towards buying one, with the prediction of supply being unable to match demand.

    Longer term too, the car club/car hire customers will be beneficial to the car makers. They won't require showrooms, or special offers, nor a need to stock a diverse range of colours and specification. Planned fleet renewal can include a production line for reuse/recycling, and a steady delivery of new vehicles with minimal requirement to have vast numbers of cars in storage, to cover variations in sales.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. jdanielp
    Member

    Car clubs are useful, but I spoke to a manager from Enterprise at an electric vehicle event in Edinburgh recently, asking about the likelihood of longer range models becoming available soon, and was told that this was unlikely as was much of an increase in lower range models - apparently they are finding fully electric vehicles difficult to manage in terms of available charging infrastructure and general usability by the public, which is disappointing. It sounds like they could do with some government support as well as making a bit more effort themselves to provide guides for those who are new to EVs.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. fimm
    Member

    We are in the Edinburgh Car Club. Normally when we want a car we want to go further than an electric car will take us. I know we hired an electric car once and had 'fun' trying to make it go...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. neddie
    Member

    leaves her Nissan Leaf plugged into one of Dundee’s fast-charging hubs once or twice a week during gym visits or shopping. “I’m planning to pop down now to M&S for a sandwich, and by the time I’m back I’m good to go.

    There's your problem right there - driving to M&S to get a sandwich...

    Councils encouraging driving for the sake of driving

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. LaidBack
    Member

    Good and bad as you say @neddie

    When I hear that taxi drivers though are positive then could be good on a wider scale. A big problem though will be finding enough cobalt to make all these batteries.

    << 11,607 EVs, out of a total of 2.5m cars in Scotland >>

    We've sold around 40 Urban Arrow 'e-bakfiets and Nihola e-trikes (combined) to put that in context. Ok LB is a minnow but between ourselves and everyone else trying to replace family cars with family e-cargo bikes I doubt retailers here have got anywhere close to that.

    Solar powered charging. ... would be good in (eg) South Africa but of course cities there clogged with high emission vehicles running air con (!)

    << South Africa has 867 EVs so far >>
    https://techfinancials.co.za/2019/06/19/100-increase-in-the-number-of-electric-vehicles-sold-in-south-africa/

    Toyota have car plant there so government will be 'unmotivated'. Ideally cargo bikes would be fine in city too but cycling is seen as a sport and only poorer members of the racial majority would use them as a means of getting around. Them and our ex-lodger who was bold enough to cycle on the main roads on his road bike to go places.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    EU electric car sales to pass 1m next year in industry CO2 drive

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6aa6117c-d0b4-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

  19. LaidBack
    Member

  20. LaidBack
    Member

    Interesting set of talks about e-transport.
    https://twitter.com/LaidBackBikes/status/1181886910794489857?s=19

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. Baldcyclist
    Member

  22. LaidBack
    Member

    Alexander Dennis aren't too keen on cars in cities.
    Very interesting hearing how they went about introducing their new models in London.

    Edinburgh Napier University’s 5th Annual Electric Vehicle Event

    Edinburgh Napier University’s 5th Annual Electric Vehicle Event

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. jdanielp
    Member

    @Baldcyclist there's a distinct possibility that it could rise to 2nd for September since the delivery numbers are up again, although the two vehicles above it aren't real competitors so probably won't lose out in sales to Telsa. I have only spotted a handful of Model 3s in Edinburgh so far and I have yet to convert my reservation to an order because they are still a long way from being 'affordable' despite being amazing.

    https://electrek.co/2019/10/09/tesla-model-3-uk-record-quarter/

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. LaidBack
    Member

    Tesla is tops in Norway of course with gov there making all EVs VAT free and not subject to tolls.

    Arnold Clark and other EV speaker pointed out that people don't really drive 'that much' so vehicles that are static 97% of time can be charged at their place of work or destination.
    Downside is that popping down shops on sub 2km journeys uses so little charge and has less 'guilt' than fossil fuel. Cue making bike and walking infra better to avoid e-jams.

    Adoption of EVs will quicken as people ditch their old models before legislation devalues them too much.
    Next year the Volkswagen ID range comes out and will give 200 mile range. Cost wise Arnold Clark expect this one to 'flip' cost on fleet hire to make petrol VWs unattractive.
    I expect huge scrapyards / recycling of this decade's cast offs. Manufacture of e-vehicles is resource heavy and we know that mineral elements for batteries are finite and have a human cost in Africa.
    Transport minister also spoke of th e need to avoid an e-elite. (We see that in e-bike terms too as £1.5k is a huge amount for those on low income but at least could be more affordable than as car .)
    Excuse Kindle errors with g a p s . . .

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

  26. chdot
    Admin

    Our new station for #Robroyston will also feature a 258-space Park & Ride facility - including 12 dedicated spaces for electric vehicle charging. Ideal for travellers on the nearby M80 looking to avoid the city centre traffic.

    ⁦‪@transcotland‬⁩ ⁦‪@GlasgowCC‬⁩ ⁦‪@SPTcorporate‬⁩

    http://pic.twitter.com/Biknxqs0Xa

    Is 12 charging points planning ahead properly?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

  28. chdot
    Admin

    “We need sustainable energy now. If we don’t have a pickup truck we can’t solve it. The top 3 selling vehicles in America are pickup trucks. To solve sustainable energy we have to have a pickup truck,” he said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/22/cybertruck-tesla-unveils-the-pickup-truck-we-have-to-have

    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. neddie
    Member

    My God, we're doomed if "Cyber Truck" is the future...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. jdanielp
    Member

    It doesn't help that the basic truck is set to be only a little bit more expensive than a basic Model 3 and is set to be cheaper than the forthcoming Model Y (none of these vehicles are genuinely 'cheap' of course, but still). At least it looks like it should be fairly easy to break a side window if you want to protest any poor driving...

    Posted 4 years ago #

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