& private dining in an authentic brick shed
as opposed to an immitation brick shed?
It sounds like the worst thing about the timberyard is they have come down with an uhealthy dose of marketeer's buzzworditis.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
A Mini-Outbreak of Hipsters
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Posted 11 years ago #
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"More evidence of gentrification leading to 'hollowing out' of the local economy."
Really? Hollowing out? As gembo said, it lay empty for years. Maybe dereliction is better than somwhere nice to eat?
"It sounds like the worst thing about the timberyard is they have come down with an uhealthy dose of marketeer's buzzworditis."
Fortunately the food makes up for it - not near being the best in the city, but pretty darned good all the same.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"As gembo said, it lay empty for years."
Probably fewer than you imagine.
Used to be
Posted 11 years ago # -
The big red door, that got some mixed reviews for sure. I cannot swear on it but when Lawson's timber went to sighthill the space was empty, then maybe off and on it was occupied? Don't quote me. But the new place has had a lot of sensitive renovation carried out by the current tenants. They let me look in the brick shed it was very authentic. Originally they were going to open t 8 am for coffee so I was checking it out as alternative to PY. But they have given up on that idea as stretched by current opening hours and renovation etc. they do have a Lebanese wine tht isn't chateau musar or the hochar per et fils (same vineyard did both). Come February I am going in for some
Posted 11 years ago # -
Benn in once, but we got a voucher for a meal for Christmas, so this has reminded me to get that booked for the end of the month!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yes, hollowing out. Whereby city centre shops that sell real things (fruit'n'veg, fish, meat, timber) are replaced by out of town megasheds: supermarkets, DIY chains, etc. The former shops become leisure/lifestyle outlets: niche boutiques or bespoke eateries for yuppies.
So it's a mixture of city centre gentrification, urban donut effect, and globalisation.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Would you prefer that a large truck has to use and stop in the centre of town for delivery and collection or go out to the "mega shed"?
Frankly I'm happier riding out to a well stocked "mega shed" some times to get what I need rather than trawl round smaller partially stocked copies of the same establishment. B&Q comes to mind, the murrayfield branch was chronically understocked but I rarely have this issue at Hermistongait. Same goes for Halfords which used to have a store in town.
Less large stores in town less large delivery trucks and a place like a timber shop will have lots of large truck collections.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@steveo, that's one side of the argument. The other might say that out of town shopping generates more car journeys, whereas city centre shops can be reached more easily by walking, cycling and public transport.
The Easter Road B&Q has closed now too. It didn't have the same range as Powderhall, but it was handy for many things and walkable. Powderhall not much further way, but definitely a bike (plus trailer usually) job for me, car for most others.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"city centre gentrification"
How awful.
"globalisation"
It's one, uno, un, ein, restaurant... If it was McDonald's maybe... Not sure if a local married couple, together with their three kids, restoring a ramshackle building, is an effect or example of globalisation...
Posted 11 years ago # -
@steveo, that's one side of the argument. The other might say that out of town shopping generates more car journeys, whereas city centre shops can be reached more easily by walking, cycling and public transport.
Another way to look at that is OOT (out of town) shopping centres generate more journeys. At the moment most journeys are made by car, but for a lot of stuff they don't have to be. A lorry load of stuff will always come on a lorry but better public transport and cycle routes can get folk out their cars. Its not like a journey into the town centre isn't a journey and for most people it still involves driving.
Ultimately most OOT sites in Edinburgh aren't that out of town. Hermiston Gait and the Gyle are closer than Princes St to me and better stocked for all things. Craigleith is quicker to cycle too and on entirely the NEP whilst a ride to town will take me on some of the busiest roads in the city. Its never as simple as shops in town good oot bad.
I realise this isn't the case for all people and folk in town are more likely to be sans car and thus would prefer to be served by local shops but at the same time cities no longer revolve around the town centre and folk further away shouldn't have to traipse into the town centre.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Craiglieth is an interesting exception -fairly big shops, reasonable amounts of parking, but also very accessible by off-road cyclepaths. Wish there were more like that.
Easter road B&Q was a great place with excellent staff.
Would prefer not all shops to turn into coffee and sandwiches places. But don't much like dodging the arctics that supply the plumbing place etc near us. Nor the uglyness that is dalton's scrapyard.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The one shop I do miss is Grays - only use dit occasionally, but useful to wander to in a lunchtime.
SRD, I don't think anyone (i.e. Steveo or I) are saying we want all shops to turn into coffee shops or sandwich joints, but equally I find it odd to rail against 'gentrification'. It's easy to attach negative connotations to such a word, but think of it as 'making a place nicer to be' and it seems strange to think that's a bad thing.
Make somewhere nicer and more people want to visit. Make it easy to get to without a car and even more people will want to visit. Copenhagen is one of the most 'gentrified' city centres I have ever visited.
Also, a timberyard, by its very nature, is going to have more people visiting it by car than a restaurant. Yes, you could get a single nail, but you could also get 17 planks of wood, and most aren't going to shepherd that home on a bike or the bus.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@wc - I thought I was agreeing with you. i'm all for gentrification, thank you very much. (as long as it doesn't mean just coffee chains.) Cornelius, and provenance wines my two fav booze shops. both definitely of the 'gentrification' model. long may they prosper. ditto local bike shops. srd
Posted 11 years ago # -
I mourn the loss of Lawson's timber to sighthill but I like what is in there now. And I am claiming, perhaps wrongly that the building was unoccupied or under occupied in a way that it is not now. And that there was a long period where it became if not derelict then run down.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Apologies SRD, the sandwich shop comment was in response to your post, the 'rail against gentrification' was a new point. Should really have full-stopped and started again! :)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Powderhall is right next to the NEPN too, and is arguably 'in town': another exception. Lots of cyclists use that B&Q, but most people arrive by car.
Its never as simple as shops in town good oot bad.
Indeed, I don't recall simplifying anything to that extent. I'm trying to describe processes that are complex but real. The terms I use may seem loaded to some (WC seems to take umbrage, in particular) but are broadly accepted as valid shorthand. The processes they describe are actively encouraged by some interests in society.
Edinburgh's donut effect is not as pronounced as in many towns and cities, mainly because so many people live in the centre. It's definitely there though, and accelerating. Certainly traditional food shopping in the city is in decline, with the exception of a couple of more prosperous areas just outside the centre, and some die-hard traditional working class areas. On a personal level there were two butchers, two fishmongers and three fruit'n'veg shops within easy walking distance of my flat when I moved in 12 years ago. Only one fruit'n'veg place remains, the rest are gone. The reasons are complex but the overall trends conform to the model I tried to describe above.
Posted 11 years ago # -
grays sold up I understand because the next generation of the family didn't want to keep running the shop. A pity from my perspective. When I lived round the corner I was in most weeks and even when moved to sticks, would pop in occasionally. Once bought a plastic measuring jug. The manager / owner was pushing me toward Pyrex. I said, there was a risk my children would break a glass jug (they were young t the time). He said, yes I expect YOUR children probably would. cutting but I thought funny.. Also loved their tiny lift. The family themselves presumably moved on to different professions and perhaps maybe even gentrified?
The needle exchange and the skate board / surfing shop still close proximity to Timberyard so still a little edge to the gentrification
Posted 11 years ago # -
"WC seems to take umbrage, in particular"
I'm just (still) at a loss as to how the Timberyard becoming a restauarant is an example of globalisation; and why gentrification was paraded as a bad thing.
I didn't pick anything up on the donut effect, as I understand and accept that that does happen. But that's the aspect you've explained above, not globalisation or gentrification.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I would prefer my high street to have a number of small locally owned shops selling stuff I need. But the combination of globalisation where smallmshopsmare closed and large multinationals take over their function on the edge of town and gentrification where the closed shops become restaurants and boutiques is something A recognise as on balance negative.
Cutting to the individual restaurant it arrived at least ten years after Lawson's moved to sighthill. the family have renovatednthenplace very well. They are doing something good, whilst being part of the globalisation gentrification trend
Posted 11 years ago # -
"they are doing something good, whilst being part of the globalisation gentrification trend"
I am sure we would say the same about manna house and Cornelius at the top of Easter road and Provenance at Tollcross - did they replace butchers and fishmongers?
Maybe, but they also keep shop-fronts in use, provide jobs, and keep punters rolling in, in areas that might not otherwise be terribly attractive shopping destinations.
It's not their fault that the previous shop closed, nor should we complain that their owners are trying to run businesses that make profits.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"But the combination of globalisation where smallmshopsmare closed and large multinationals take over their function on the edge of town and gentrification where the closed shops become restaurants and boutiques is something A recognise as on balance negative"
See, this I understand. Although I'd rather restaurants and boutiques than closed shops... Unless shops were closing specifically to become restaurants and boutiques.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"It's not their fault that the previous shop closed, nor should we complain that their owners are trying to run businesses that make profits."
This. Spot on.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Indeed, I don't recall simplifying anything to that extent. I'm trying to describe processes that are complex but real.
I'm trying to show that, in Edinburgh any way, it doesn't matter. If the high street dies because people don't want to shop there, so be it. A trip into town isn't necessarily a trip not in the car. Almost all of the OOT shopping centres are exceptions to the expected norm. They Gyle and Kinaird Park are (very) well served by buses, Powderhall and Craigleith are both on the NEPN, Hermiston Gait is attached to mostly off road path (Broomhouse) now. Loanhead is a serious issue for most non drivers but in actual fact is the exception and even that has a regular bus service.
The fact that people drive to these places is not a symptom of the place but a symptom of the fact that people automatically drive places. Judging by the traffic at the weekend, they automatically dive to town centres just as much.
The fact that people choose not to use Butchers or Fruit Mongers may be related to the fact they can't drive there or it might be that they no longer have time to go round 4 shops then go the supermarket to get the rest of the shopping.
I'm afraid I no more mourn the loss of the traditional fruit and veg shop any more than the loss of a city centre timber mill or a large electrical retailer which couldn't compete with the internet (after it put smaller firms out of business)
Posted 11 years ago # -
I've been keeping an eye on these trends for a while, for reasons of my own, and there are answers.
Many streets in London have formed almost "area protection schemes" where they basicaly block any "chain" from opening in the street - mostly multi nationals/nationals who do "everything" and accelerate planning on, and relax conditions on smaller/independent/very niche shops. What's happened is that these areas hav actually seen commerce go up and rent go DOWN, not to mention the lack of "super cheap food" means that the good restaurants (for example timberbush) can reduce their prices.
Imagine Grassmarket/cowgate where all the pubs are locally owned, there are wee clothes/flower/food shops all the way up and down. There are offices and a lively locally scene. Suddenly the pints are cheaper (no competition from the "stag do" pubs who can let in massive packs and still charge £3.50 a pint) and so is the food. (same again - no-one is packing silly 2 meals for £7). I genuinely see a shift in the markets towards this more and more. One day I hope to see edinburgh take a turn this way. More and more the rent of the previous (chain) tenant is the block to new independents. Get rid of this hike threat in smaller areas and we've got our issue sorted.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The fact that people choose not to use Butchers or Fruit Mongers may be related to the fact they can't drive there or it might be that they no longer have time to go round 4 shops then go the supermarket to get the rest of the shopping.
[sociological idea disguised as inflammatory comment] Dare I say it's the result of more women working, so not having the spare time to do the shopping? [/sociological idea disguised as inflammatory comment]
Society has changed a lot in the past few decades and the high street is feeling the effects, especially in the food shopping department.
I do mourn the loss of traditional fruit and veg shops, as it's symptomatic of the loss of economic diversity, atmosphere, social interaction, friendliness and convenience of neighbourhoods.
Posted 11 years ago # -
" Imagine Grassmarket/cowgate where all the pubs are locally owned, there are wee clothes/flower/food shops all the way up and down."
if you moved the Grassmarket half a mile north-west, got rid of most of the pubs and hotels and put little signs on the pavements you could create a sort of "West End Village" thing with that sort of local/artisan/boutiquerie/thingbyish feel.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The fact that people drive to these places is not a symptom of the place but a symptom of the fact that people automatically drive places. Judging by the traffic at the weekend, they automatically dive to town centres just as much.
Yes, this is a big part of the problem. Out of town generally easier to park, mind you.
The fact that people choose not to use Butchers or Fruit Mongers may be related to the fact they can't drive there or it might be that they no longer have time to go round 4 shops then go the supermarket to get the rest of the shopping.
Lack of parking space = lack of time to find somewhere to park = lack of time to visit four shops next to each other. The physical walking distance and time spent 'traipsing' can be less than the distance/time involved in trekking from the car, across the car park, round the ginormous megashed, then back to the car, parking the trolley, etc. But it's point-to-point, all done in one card transaction, all under one air-conditioned roof, heck you don't even have to interact with a person on the till any more (at least not at Sinsberries). Therefore more "convenient".
I'm afraid I no more mourn the loss of the traditional fruit and veg shop any more than the loss of a city centre timber mill or a large electrical retailer which couldn't compete with the internet (after it put smaller firms out of business)
I think the two are very different: Grommit was mostly an out of town shed store, IIRC. The 'other' chain electricals retailer was the high street presence, they've mostly gone out of town/web these days...
Traditional fruit'n'veg shops are a better 'experience' than the supermarket equivalent. Then again we get an organic veg box delivered: another symptom of gentrification no doubt. We supplement this with trips to our remaining fruit'n'veg shop (complete with the owner saying 'special price, just for you', etc.) and the local Scotmid convenience store. Haven't been in Sinsberries since October, usually just get dried/canned/frozen stuff there nowadays. But then I shop by bike and on foot. No doubt if we had a car, it would be the 'monthly shop' ritual instead, and Meadowbank has a large free car park...
Posted 11 years ago # -
f you moved the Grassmarket half a mile north-west, got rid of most of the pubs and hotels and put little signs on the pavements you could create a sort of "West End Village" thing with that sort of local/artisan/boutiquerie/thingbyish feel.
Wingpig - west end village always doomed to be a bit weird/off road/crap because they didn't extend it ALL the way to the actual west end. Instead allowing the whole of shandwick place to be a horror of supermarkets - oh and tram holes.
Posted 11 years ago # -
It's not their fault that the previous shop closed, nor should we complain that their owners are trying to run businesses that make profits.
Did anyone say anything like that? I know I didn't.
Posted 11 years ago # -
a sort of "West End Village" thing with that sort of local/artisan/boutiquerie/thingbyish feel.
Isn't that what Bruntsfield and Stockbridge are for?
Posted 11 years ago #
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