CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
"Hundreds fined as police launch crackdown on pavement cyclists" - Manchester
(60 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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I can only hope this reduces the number of people who feel the need to cycle on the pavement, however having spent time riding in manchester it's frankly terrifying. They have a lot to do in Manc to make that city even remotely cycle friendly.
A friend of mine lived in didsbury (just outside central manc), he was a accomplished edinburgh cyclist, I've rode with him in London, cuba, france, belgium. He wouldn't dream of going into the centre of manchester on a bike.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I always wonder if you have a child is it then acceptable to cycle on the pavement?
Just wondering what if the police stopped you whilst you were taking a pavement route near a particulary busy road with a 4 year old would they fine you?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Whether it's 'acceptable' or not would depend on the degree of common sense of the police involved.
Extrapolating from some of the comments in the article (particularly the one about the person booked while carrying a toddler in his bike) it looks like the police in Manchester would be intransigent enough to book you, but if challenged the case would stand a good chance of being thrown out of court.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Bruce, Firedog - I usually go on the road while my son (6) goes on pavement on busy stretches, I think this is a decent compromise while he learns the ropes on quieter roads.
I did chase a bmw down Bernard Terrace last week, as she tooted me for the crime of cycling slowly round the corner from St Leonards (while making sure my boy was doing ok).
When I caught her and hubby at the lights, I explained that tooting loud enough to scare my child who was learning to cycle was not acceptable behaviour.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Perhaps if the Polis had a "crackdown" every time a cyclist was knocked off their bike, Manchester would be a better place to cycle? I know Edinburgh would be.
But that's not going to happen is it?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Always easier to pick on the minority than deal with bad behaviour from the majority...
Posted 12 years ago # -
"
Always easier to pick on the minority than deal with bad behaviour from the majority...
"Nope, you need to do both. Bit like the EN threads, these threads always seem to revert to BLOODY MOTORISTS .... ;)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Nope, you need to do both.
Alas, I am not a member of HM Constabulary. Otherwise I'd happily oblige.
It is, however 'wrong', entirely understandable that PC Copper & Co. will go for easy 'wins' rather than trying to square up to more tricky and potentially unpopular challenges like improving driver behaviour (beyond the obvious anti-drink driving, speed traps, etc.).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yes, it is the fact that "both" isn't happening that is the problem. Far too many of us have been run over/hurt/threatened and nothing is done.
Police crackdowns on pavement cycling/RLJing don't affect me anyway so I am not bothered by them per se.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I think this image of PC Copper helpfully illustrates the numerous different priorities which weigh down upon the average constable in the line of duty:
Here we see the valiant officer attempting to deal with a number of drivers:
Posted 12 years ago # -
entirely understandable that PC Copper & Co. will go for easy 'wins' rather than trying to square up to more tricky and potentially unpopular challenges like improving driver behaviour
This sounds not unlike like a politically-motivated form of busy work involving a boondoggle. Sooner or later you run out of those easy wins, either because you have actually picked all the low hanging fruit, or because that fruit has become less desirable than another.
Posted 12 years ago # -
People cycling on the pavement hardly does the image of cycling/cyclists much good - I'm exempting adults accompanying kids here, as there may be good reasons for that. The odd crackdown, particularly during freshers week, isn't a bad idea if it reduces the number of people doing it. I imagine everyone cycling on the pavement knows it is an offence (under 12's need not worry - they are effectively exempt), so it seems a bit churlish to complain if you get caught - which is very unlikely (I don't know anyone who has been ticketed for this).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Morningsider - I do agree with you, especially about freshers week! (Stereotyping? Moi?) but getting screamed at in public for turning right or riding round a parked car does not do much for the image of cycling either. Neither does being SMIDSY'd at a junction or deliberately run over for being in the way.
To put it another way, pavement cycling is not the reason that so few people cycle in the UK. After all, you can easily avoid it by, er not riding on the pavement.
The alternative to riding on the pavement is to risk injury or death by riding on the road. That situation is not going to change because drivers must never be expected to drive more slowly. If they run you down - tough. If they threaten you or use their vehicle as a weapon against you - tough.
I am trying to think of another situation where people are expected to stop trying to save themselves and just go and risk getting killed or injured but I can't. It is extremely perverse.
And before anyone starts with the "cycling is safe" line - if the general public thought cycling was safe they'd all be out riding their bikes. On the road and not on the pavement.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"
Ruth Cameron (@armadillojam)
18/09/2012 11:19
@isphotographs @CyclingEdin tempted to comment, I once got abuse taking my bike onto the pavement, I was going from the road to my house!
"
Posted 12 years ago # -
Min - I agree that some people cycle on the pavement for safety reasons and that isn't right - the roads should be safe. However, many of the pavement cyclists that I see are doing it to avoid traffic lights, one-way systems and the like.
I don't like pavement cycling due to the potential conflict with pedestrians, no big problem for me personally but more risk for the less mobile.
I think more effort should be concentrated on policing offences by motorists - although I do think more effort is currently expended on this than on prosecuting cyclists.
Posted 12 years ago # -
In Marchmont it is mostly to avoid the setts; why do people insist on using 'road bikes' that are not suitable for the roads around here? You can tell the students are back; while recycling yesterday, I was brushed by a pavement cycling prat.
Given that I know no-one who has ever been prosecuted or warned for illegal cycling actions but a few who have been done for speeding etc in their cars, my non-scientific response is that more resources are put into detecting driving offences than cycling ones. happy to take anyones money who wants to try and prove otherwise.
Posted 12 years ago # -
And what is a suitable bike for "roads around here"? I and plenty others on this forum get around just fine on "racers" or road bikes, I've managed to get around several sustrans non road routes with 23c tyres, not ideal but functional.
A few members round here seem to have no small amount of snobbery about the bikes that people should ride in exactly the same fashion as the off-mocked hipster or pro-roadie wannabe.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yep, I commuted for years on 23C tyres that took every cobble and pothole in their stride.
Would be interesting to review pavement cycling, the 'normal' pavement cyclist I see is on a mountain bike type bike (which would be more 'suited' to cobbly streets) - I presume because they're bumping up and down kerbs (again, easy to do on 23s as well).
And do not get Uberuce started on 'needing' a mountain bike in the city... :P
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sorry, I'm just going on the excuses that the PCPs come out with; as a proportion of cyclists in Marchmont, the PCPs disproportionately ride cheap old narrow tyred road bikes (which are of an age that they were probably sold as racers). If that cant cope with the road surface here there are alternative routes (Strathearn Road, the Links) or they could get off and walk for 5 minutes. My MTB has semi-slick tyres and copes fine with setts, potholes etc. Maybe you shouldnt need a MTB in the city, but suspension at the front makes Edinburghs roads much more pleasant while commuting short distances (my commutes have always been less than 6 miles each way).
Posted 12 years ago # -
"my non-scientific response is that more resources are put into detecting driving offences than cycling ones."
Given there are vastly more drivers than cyclists I should hope so.
If anyone can find a greater or even equal or even any proportion of Police crackdowns on the dangerous behaviour of drivers towards cyclists than on dangerous behaviour of cyclists towards pedestrians I will eat my h*lm*t.
Posted 12 years ago # -
On the "suitable bikes" point, I've found my sensible continental-style touring bike (fat slicks, upright riding position) to be considerably more uncomfortable on the famed cobbles of Drummond Place than either my skinny-tyred single speed or racer. I think this is due to
a) riding position - more weight being on the derriere on the tourer; and
b) speed of travel - on the skinny tyres, adopting the Paris-Roubaix approach of the faster you go, the less you notice the gaps.Posted 12 years ago # -
"If anyone can find a greater or even equal or even any proportion of Police crackdowns on the dangerous behaviour of drivers towards cyclists than on dangerous behaviour of cyclists towards pedestrians I will eat my h*lm*t"
Specifically on drivers towards cyclists, doubtful. But in general on drink driving and speeding in general the figures are likely to be monstrously high compared to sending a couple of cops to watch a particular junction for half a day...
Posted 12 years ago # -
I quite like that there are a lot of non-helmet wearing, normal clothed young student types kicking around marchmont at this time of year - IMO it further normalises cycling and that can only be positive.
p.s. I have never been particularly worried by or terrorised by pavement cyclers and I live in the area.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Super skinny bikes from the 1970s, super skinny jeans etc
Found 32mm tyres on sit up easier over cobbles easier than 28mm on tourer, maybe on super skinny you stand up out of the saddle?
I am not a fan of adults cycling on the pavement
I was nearly taken out on thesaughton park roundabout by taxi driver looked straight t me coming off the roundabout heading fornsainsburys to buy avengers assemble for 8.99 and just came straight on forcing me to brake on the roundabout. I didn't give chase but free wheeled along to next junction where taxi was stopped at the lights. Had a word, the driver said, sorry darlin, I didn't check my wing mirror (indicating LHS mirror). Odd as she was looking straight at me out of her RHS window when she drove on to the roundabout. Phone in ear and blind to the bike. Lookout for east Lothian black taxi bus driven by blind person.
so I guess there are far worse things than pavement cyclists, but if you are an old granny going to the rotting fruit and veg shops of argyle place then you will be terrified
Posted 12 years ago # -
Waiter: Would Sir care to order?
Uberuce: I think I'll have the humble pie to start and the words for main, please.
Waiter: Very good sir. Would these be sir's own words?
Uberuce: Yes, thank you.
Waiter: Ah, a wise choice, sir. Tonight they come with a bitter pill and a side of one's own medicine.
....
In the course of lending Kapper's pal a trailer at the weekend I was riding my tractor MTB around town minus trailer for the first time ever, really, and...urm...it was really good at it. The 2" tyres just don't care about cobbles or poor surfacing, although there are still a shameful number of potholes that are too rich for their blood.
In my partial defence I've taken the travel out the front suspension fork and it's on Marathon road tyres, so it's more like a balloon tyre cruiser with an oddly wide spread of gears than an MTB, but I admit it: omnomnom my words, yummy.
Posted 12 years ago # -
why do people insist on using 'road bikes' that are not suitable for the roads around here?
I was surrounded by a shoal of folk on 'road bikes' at peak commuting time this evening around the Bridges/Teviot area (all with helmets, some in full lycra, some not). I was on the black utilitised Globe hybrid, sans helmet, in 'normal' clothes.
I don't really understand the numerous commuters I see on skinny tyred, no mudguards 'road bikes' either. However I would not look at their choice as somehow 'wrong', I just personally wouldn't make that choice. I do have 'racier' bikes but I tend not to ride them around town nor on the commute.
I suppose there's a blend of speed and distance at work there. They probably couldn't get why I was riding a 700x35 tyred, 'heavy' hybrid with straight bars (and bar ends), front and rear racks, Dutch panniers, full guards, upright riding position, etc.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I love riding to work on my skinny tyred Racer. It is brilliant fun! Not very practical but brilliant fun.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Agree with Min here, I ride my Orbea -single speed conversion. It's uncomfortable as hell on pot holes but get it up to speed on its 52-16 gear and it really rockets. Great fun. I have my other bikes for if I'm tired/it's too icy.
Posted 12 years ago # -
why do people insist on using 'road bikes' that are not suitable for the roads around here?
Because those are the bikes they have? I'd love a proper winter bike with thicker tyres and mudguards and a rack and stuff - but I don't have the money right now, so I will continue to commute on the skinny-tyred, mudguard-and-rack-less bike I acquired from Mr Fimm. Because that is what I've got.Why do people insist on being snobby about other people's bicycles?
Posted 12 years ago #
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