EARL?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Tram latest
(2182 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
-
Edinburgh Airport Railway Link.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The Edinburgh Airport Rail Link would have allowed quick travel to and from the airport from the City Centre, Fife, Glasgow and elsewhere.
In 2007 the SNP cut the funding for it but left the tram project in place.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Council approve further residential developments at Ratho, then scrap the direct 12 bus service into town.
/* applause */
Posted 10 years ago # -
EARL would have involved digging a tunnel under the runway, with all the associated risks and asset-protection distress for the airport, which wouldn't have been cheap.
Edinburgh Gateway Station at Gogarburn should at least allow Fifers to get the train then the tram. I can't remember whether the Dalmeny chord is part of EGIP. If it is, that should allow folks from points west to do the same.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm pretty sure BAA were firmly against the idea of tunnelling under the runway.
Re; Edinburgh Gogarway station - will that result in the closure of South Gyle?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
New price lists reveal a return journey to the airport has risen to £8 – a 50p increase on fares announced last September and £1 more expensive than the Airlink bus service.
"
Posted 10 years ago # -
So the bus is cheaper, faster and more frequent than the tram and takes a more direct route to town past areas with hotels.
I wonder which I would choose?
Posted 10 years ago # -
They could really do with setting up a proper smartcard that you could use to pay £1.50 per journey (or, hey, perhaps even less to encourage take up) and that capped travel costs at the Dayticket price once you got to three journeys. But that would benefit the passenger, which isn't really Lothian Buses' guiding principle, I guess.
Instead, the best they can offer is an app where the onus is on the punter or a Ridacard, which only really makes sense if you travel on three buses a day five days a week. And both of which you have to pay for in advance. Thanks for the convenience, LB...
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think many airport passengers will bite their hand off - £8 return to city centre is not expensive. Yep its a whole £1 more than the bus - but the bus will not stop "in the concourse" (once its complete, of course).
Or they can take a £20 taxi!
There is also clearly smartcard technology on the ticket machines at tramstops - if I am to guess, I reckon it will be rolled out once it can be integrated with the buses - if they didn't do that it would be a bit pointless?
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Nelly My moan was based on what they say about their smart ticketing on their website. I hope they are keeping their powder dry and will offer something that actually helps and encourages the customer, but at the moment it looks like the usual revenue protection mindset from LB.
Posted 10 years ago # -
PS, yep, lets wait and see.
What gets my goat is the usual EEN nonsense "oooh, sounds like a tourist tax by stealth"
well, Newsflash Johnstone Press - go pretty much anywhere in Europe there is an explicit TT. When I go to France skiing, minimum 1€ per night. Rome? 3€ per night per person.
Posted 10 years ago # -
A tourist tax does seem sensible. According to wikipedia Scotland has about 80 million overnight tourist stays per year. If, I don't know, 5% of them were in Edinburgh and we charged £1 per night per person the city would have an extra £4million per year to spend on making itself more lovely for the tourists (and for us).
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Sir Richard Branson will not rule out running the long-awaited Edinburgh trams as one of his next projects, saying he would be enthusiastic about the idea of taking it on.
"
Soundbite Branson.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Richard Branson has made a lifetime out of saying he won't rule out not doing something. Then following through on his commitment by not doing it.
Posted 10 years ago # -
They could really do with setting up a proper smartcard
I've heard on the grape vine some chat of using NFC on your phone linked to an app to allow daily billing so you'd get charge based on what would be best for the customer on the day. Two singles £3 more £3.50, airport £5.
This is currently being trailed by TFL, Manchester and Sheffield are looking on with interest also.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@acsimpson "In 2007 the SNP cut the funding for it but left the tram project in place."
No they didn't, the SNP voted against the trams but were outvoted by other parties.
No offence, but it always surprises me how many people think the SNP backed the trams.
Posted 10 years ago # -
calmac - the SNP at national level did want to cancel the trams. The SNP at local level, when they entered into coalition with Labour, backed the trams. It's not as easy as saying that the SNP opposed the trams.
The fact that the tram project became a political football is part of the reason why it was so badly managed. Transport Scotland (which is far more experienced in dealing with major infrastructure projects than the Council) would have stepped in far earlier if it had been politically acceptable to Scottish Ministers - as happened with the Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine rail project and GARL. The fact that this didn't happen meant that public money was knowing wasted through terrible project management arrangements, simply to make a political point.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Done a hugely scientific test on the stealthyness of the trams this afternoon. When its quiet you can a resonation signal in the rails or OHP lines approximately 25 elephants prior to the tram passing you at an average walking pace. That probably extends to 30-35 elephants whilst riding.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've heard on the grape vine some chat of using NFC on your phone linked to an app to allow daily billing so you'd get charge based on what would be best for the customer on the day
Daily caps have been on oyster for a long time and really are the best of all worlds unless you use enough for an unlimited card of some sort.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I did write to Lothian Buses after a trip to London asking why they had no capped pre-pay Oyster Card type scheme for irregular users like me.
The reply was really detailed and interesting. Essentially they'd love to, but can't afford it. The chap pointed out that London transport systems are hugely state subsidised, whilst Lothian Buses is a commercial enterprise.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"calmac - the SNP at national level did want to cancel the trams. The SNP at local level, when they entered into coalition with Labour, backed the trams. It's not as easy as saying that the SNP opposed the trams."
Well, Edinburgh SNP council group is hardly the SNP. Besides, they got clearance from the wider party to do that as part of a coalition deal. Had they been on their own, they wouldn't have gone ahead with the trams.
"The fact that the tram project became a political football is part of the reason why it was so badly managed... simply to make a political point"
I have to disagree with you there. The Scottish Government opposed the project, so why should they have taken on the risk and cost, and given over time and staff that could (and did) go towards other projects? Edinburgh wanted the trams and said they cold do it on budget, and they were given the chance to do it. Transport Scotland eventually stepped in, and if you think they should have gone in earlier then we'll just have to disagree. I'm just grateful they stepped in at all.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The Scottish Government opposed the project, so why should they have taken on the risk and cost, and given over time and staff that could (and did) go towards other projects?
Because a majority of MSPs in the parly voted for it to happen. Because the Scottish government agency Transport Scotland was providing most of the funding. Because it would have been the responsible, professional thing to do.
Instead, the minority government threw a hissy fit at not being able to build the Aberdeen bypass sooner, and steadfastly refused to engage with the trams. Presumably also instructed Transport Scotland not to engage. Pure political spite.
One of the worst instances of spiteful politicking in the short history of SNP governance. I hope we don't see a repeat of that level of, frankly, immature behaviour.
Posted 10 years ago # -
calmac - so the local SNP got approval from the national SNP, but that isn't the SNP? I'm not quite sure I follow.
The Scottish Government, as custodians of the taxpayers finest should ensure best value for money. Knowingly letting taxpayers money be wasted in an attempt to embarrass other parties is pretty poor form.
If you are grateful that Transport Scotland did eventually step in, would you not be even more grateful if they had stepped in earlier and protected more taxpayers cash?
Surely you can still be a keen SNP supporter while acknowledging their mistakes? I honestly think this modern requirement for slavish adherence to a party line is why political party membership has nosedived over recent times - there is no room for debate, dissent or grass roots policy development.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Because a majority of MSPs in the parly voted for it to happen. Because the Scottish government agency Transport Scotland was providing most of the funding."
Exactly. And it was to be capped, with Edinburgh carrying the liability for the excess. It was their project, entirely inside one council area, so why not let them deliver it if they wanted it?
"Because it would have been the responsible, professional thing to do."
I could not disagree more. The project was a poisoned chalice, and the risks were greater than financial - reputation damage can get so bad that it impacts on everything else you're trying to do. See the Holyrood building project for the best example of that.
It's easy to look back once Transport Scotland have brought it home ahead of the revised schedule and on budget and say "they should have done that earlier". But Edinburgh didn't want to give it up, and the Scottish Government didn't want that particular pile of poo left on their lap if they could possibly avoid it. Which is absolutely fair enough in my view.
In my view, what they did is exactly what I'd call professional.
"Knowingly letting taxpayers money be wasted in an attempt to embarrass other parties is pretty poor form."
To me, that's a partisan view. Why did all three main opposition parties vote for the trams when they knew the SNP were against it? I think a big element for some, especially for those from outside of Lothian, was to saddle the minority government with it. I think they use it as a political football from day one.
If the parliament had realy wanted Transport Scotland to take it on, they could have forced it. But they didn't.
Personally I thought the SNP did the right thing from the outset in opposing it, because I didn't think it was ever going to be worth it.
As for taxpayers money, taxpayers outside of Edinburgh see this as yet another way Edinburgh sucked up cash that would have better been spent elsewhere.
"Surely you can still be a keen SNP supporter while acknowledging their mistakes?"
You're working on the automatic assumption that this was a mistake, which is a wee bit arrogant. There's a perfectly reasonable case for it not being a mistake at all. They voted against the project, they got lumped with paying half a billion quid for it and doing the legislation, it went mammaries-up as they said it would, they stepped in, they delivered it on time and on budget from then.
So no, I don't think it was a mistake.
I'll happily criticise the SNP on transport, land reform, corroboration, local governance, and lots of small things - like STV ballot papers in alphabetical order, which is dumb. So you can dismount from your mighty steed there.
Posted 10 years ago # -
In my view, what they did is exactly what I'd call professional.
I think you're wrong about that.
why not let them deliver it if they wanted it?
Which was exactly the Scot gov attitude. Worse, they publicly disowned the project which left the Lab/Lib coalition on Edinburgh council isolated. I think it was churlish, petty and spiteful of the SNP minority government to behave in this way, just because they didn't get what they wanted. And yes, totally unprofessional and unfitting for a government to behave that way.
A more responsible approach would have been to accept parliament's decision, and to support Edinburgh fully to ensure the trams happened on time and with as little waste as possible.
Sorry Morningsider for wading in here but I can't let this lie: You're working on the automatic assumption that this was a mistake, which is a wee bit arrogant.
It was a mistake. More than that it was a deliberate attempt to undermine the decision of parliament, to pay lip service to it, to abandon even the pretense of supporting Edinburgh council in realising the project.
That is partisan behaviour, to be expected perhaps of an opposition party but not one supposedly taking on the responsibilities of government. That means if you are in a minority, not always getting your own way, and not spitting the dummy or throwing toys out the pram if and when that happens.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"It was a mistake."
No, that's an opinion. Pretty obviously.
I've learned that it's generally not a good idea to argue with people who claim opinions as facts.
I've given my opinion and my reasons for it, we disagree, but please don't go claiming you're right and I'm wrong 'cos you say so. There are plenty of other places on the internet for that sort of thing.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"So you can dismount from your mighty steed there."
"There are plenty of other places on the internet for that sort of thing."
Posted 10 years ago # -
He was on his high horse, I think that's safe to say, with the lecture about people [like me] slavishly following their political party. On the basis that I didn't agree with his assertion, ergo must be a sheep.
I'm respecting other people's opinions here. So please don't try to take my comment and pitch it as worse than it was.
Is it really not possible to have a civil disagreement about these bloody trams?
Posted 10 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
