At least they haven't had the cheek to call it a cycle lane there.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Tram latest
(2182 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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I've ridden a bike in Edinburgh since I was six years old and I consider myself a confident and assertive cyclist. Thanks to CEC I have absolutely no desire anymore to cycle on Princes St.
Posted 11 years ago # -
OK, all fair opinions - mine is that its no worse an impediment to cycling than riding cobbles on a wet day.
I rarely go that way so it wont be an issue either way for me - but also means that my 'test' was perhaps not that valid.
Perhaps someone who commutes that way can give us a longer term report?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I quite often turn right onto Princes Street from Waverley Bridge, on the way back from the station. This means crossing into, then out of, the tram lines. Now that they have sorted the traffic light sequence out it is not as intimidating as it was when the contraflow was there. I find it an inconvenience but as Nelly says, no worse than wet cobbles.
At first I thought the central reservation was a bad idea but this actually helps to stop traffic from overtaking if you're cycling in the middle of the tracks: which you need to be really to navigate this section.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Where the tram turns left from Princes St into St A Sq is really bad - possibly the worst cycle-crossing location anywhere on the route. This has been obvious from the plans ever since they were published for public consultation 2 or 3 years ago. Spokes pointed this out several times to the council and in spokes bulletins, but whereas in some locations they agreed to modify the road layout around the tramlines (e.g. quite significantly at the Mound crossing) they felt there was no immediately obvious solution here. Their intention now is to look at how it functions in practice, then see if any mods can be made.
It is proving just as bad as expected - Spokes knows of 3 people who have reported coming off in the few weeks since it opened - including experienced and careful cyclists. If there's traffic around I personally get off at that crossing (I'm on a Brompton) which is a ridiculous thing to have to do in order to cycle along Edinburgh's premier street.
The top problem is that the tram was built as a 'tram-only' project, with everything else having to be fitted in around it once the tramline layout was decided. If we were in Netherlands etc, we would have had a holistic design, incorporating tram, bike, peds etc, from the very beginning.
Another lesson is the importance of lots of people commenting when plans come out for public consultation. By the time something is built it's obviously far more costly and politically difficult to get it changed.
Posted 11 years ago # -
There are better routes for west east travel through Edinburgh than princes st and this was the case before the trams. I am happy to get off and push whenever this is the most sensible way to go.
Happy also to keep pressure on politicians to consider cycling, as if it ever gets to the stage where cycling is a vote winner they will all become pro cycling
With the trams, there were quite a few other difficulties in addition to them not being cycling friendly.
Edinburgh is clearly not amsterdam or Copenhagen but our new year resolutions should perhaps include ways of keeping the pressure on the politicians. We should all join spokes, we should also definitely push for Leith Walk to be renamed Leith Drive. Our aimis to makenEdinburgh the number one driving city in Europe, free parking for all cars, 40mph speed limits on queen st, etc the trouble with trying to be satirical of course is that many take you at your word
Posted 11 years ago # -
Here's your chance to comment on the Tram byelaws:
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20236/about_the_trams/1846/information_about_the_trams/5
e.g. a byelaw should be added that bicycles will be carried...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I have e-mailed the link which was to a Scottish govt address asking for a byelaw to be created to ensure bikes will be carried. Am not sure the consultation was looking for such a suggestion but can see no reason for not making the request.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Meanwhile in 1957...
Edinburgh Year Book 1957 - The Passing of the Trams - illustration by John Martin by mikeyashworth, on FlickrPosted 11 years ago # -
The chipwrapper/Hootsman/Johnston Press seems to have fairly changed it's tune on the tram. They're doing a fine job of reprinting all the tram press releases as "articles". Still, saves employing journalists I guess.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Once they start running the sheer wondrousness of the trip to the airport will obliterate the memory of the bill in the collective zeitgeist
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yes, to think it used to take us 30 uncomfortable diesely minutes a bus to get to the airport from Waverley, soon we can do it in splendid electric comfort in 30 minutes (from Haymarket!)*
* actual quoted times according to Wikipedia
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yes it will be so much better
Posted 11 years ago # -
Probably need to add another three minutes onto the tram time for the walk in from the tram stop. I wonder if there will be a travellator?
30 mins from Haymarket is a bit dissapointingly slow for a traffic free route. Will they run to a timetable or just try and get there as fast as possible which seems to be what the buses do?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere (a quick search suggests not), but Water of Leith users might be pleased to hear that it is now possible to walk and cycle the Balgreen section without having to ride along Baird Drive and Balgreen Road (and the horrible right hand turn off Balgreen Road to rejoin the Water of Leith path alongside the skate park).
Heading south/westwards from the path by Murrayfield, the Eastern bank of the river is now open under the tram/railway bridge and you can pop out at the new Westfield Avenue development to then use the new bridge over the river.
The Westfield Avenue development route involves an annoying doubling back on yourself and could have been designed better by including a path along the river, but in the grand scheme of things, it won't be an issue when the western path reopens in due course (perhaps it is open now but I did not notice as I was too busy exploring the eastern option).
Posted 11 years ago # -
Update - having had a look this morning, the west side path on the WoL under the railway bridge mentioned above is still very much closed.
Posted 11 years ago # -
thanks pixel mix for the info. I think I have followed what you are saying. Insteadnof crossing the river at the bridge that would take you to the western side path or Baird drive keep going along the eastern side , under the railway bridge and you end up at the new footbridge. Cross over then follow the path round to the lights that allow you to cross the road and enter saughton park at the skatepark.
I used the new footbridge for first time before Xmas to get to sainsburys from my work avoiding traffic. Alas the next week my office moved into town.
The pedestrian / cycle crossing lights I have always used even when I am on the road to make the horrible right turn. Just slow down, come off the road at the lights, as if going on to the WoL path eastwards then press button, cross on green bike and continue on WoL path westwards. No shame in it and would probably be John franklin's recommendation on that particularly nasty right turn.
Posted 11 years ago # -
OpenStreetMap shows the new bridge and paths that pixelmix describes.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Surprisingly not marked as shut on OSM -
Pity there isn't the waterside shortcut!
Note updated CycleStreet iPhone app allows multi-point route planning!
Posted 11 years ago # -
In further tram news, the crossing of the tram lines at Edinburgh Park station is largely complete.
The crossing itself is fine, wide and flat. However, when you take into account all the connecting paths, the journey from the tunnel under the railway to into Hermiston Gait would be as follows;
Right. Up hill. Over rumble strips. Mingle through cross-pedestrian traffic. U-turn around a ramp/chicane. Turn right 90 degrees. Cross tracks. Turn right 90 degrees. U turn around a low wall. Cross toucan crossing. Left turn 90 degrees. Right turn 90 degrees.
You can admire the drawings for yourself here.
The drawinds for the wider layout at Edinburgh Park is here. I'm not sure any consideration has been given to those wishing to connect with Cultins Road and the canal. Kind of get the feeling it's been designed out.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Kind of get the feeling it's been designed out."
There's a surprise...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Chdot's OSM map neatly shows what I was trying to explain, and nicely illustrates that a much better path could have been made if you could have continued along the edge of the water from point 1 southwards. Alas, that is now back gardens! I won't lose too much sleep over it though, since I'll revert to the route shown on the 1st map when that reopens.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Kappers links to here and here appear to link to unavailable documents on the website*. They must have cottoned on to people finding them and have moved them to that far drawer in the basement of the council offices along with the intergalactic bypass routing through the Earth.
* [as do mine - did you click?? ;o)]
Posted 11 years ago # -
Kappers links to here and here appear to link to unavailable documents on the website*. They must have cottoned on to people finding them and have moved them to that far drawer in the basement of the council offices along with the intergalactic bypass routing through the Earth.
So it looks like they are session-only links. It doesn't have a feature to create a static link. You'll have to search for the application itself here. It's the only thing that comes up if you search "Edinburgh park station".
I'll do a screengrab of the PDF and annotate it later on when I'm home.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This is how you're meant to get from South Gyle / Edinburgh Park to Hermiston Gait by bike;
The green line is the route of travel. I'm not actually entirely sure the bit on the left (Hermiston Gait pavement) is actually shared use. But seeing as they've dug up and blocked off a path that was directly aligned with the crossing, I'm not exactly sure how else they intend for you to get in.
What it needs is one of those token overly elaborate cycle-lanes-to-nowhere, like IKEA or Tesco at Corstorphine, in this case it would actually (kind of) have something to connect to!
Posted 11 years ago # -
"
Edinburgh Trams (@EdinburghTrams)
07/01/2013 14:54
Here's a pic of the tram tracks on South St Andrew St. curving onto Princes St... http://pic.twitter.com/PaJlj063"
"Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns)
07/01/2013 20:26
@scotbot @BCCletts @CyclingEdin @LAHinds Any specific pictures/locations would be appreciated thanks,Andrew. (andrew.burns@edinburgh.gov.uk)"
And a few tweets in between.
https://twitter.com/edinburghtrams/status/288297435514675200
Posted 11 years ago # -
Nice picture. I particularly like the way they couldn't be bothered to cut a small piece of kerbstone to fill the gap on the rails on the right, and just poured in some tarmac instead.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'd give that approximately 6 weeks, assuming relatively "light" double decker bus use...
Posted 11 years ago # -
A healthy young desire line spotted at Edinburgh Park:
I want gets nothing, on Flickrwhere the diversionary route for cyclists shown earlier is obviously too tortuous for common sense.
South St Andrew Street today:
Tramworking, on Flickrand a close-up of the rails:
Temporary rubbish no.2, on FlickrThe tar infill is probably just to stop accumulation of weather and crud, until they put the proper rubbery stuff in instead. That said, I tried out Princes St today and had plenty of time to observe the conditions on account of there being so much traffic. In many places the rubber mastic stuff has shrunk since it was put in, leading to big step heights adjacent to the rails that will catch tyres.
I also looked at the edge of the green bus lane paint where I had my near accident a few weeks ago, and discovered that in a few places the tarmac has subsided. Only by half an inch or so, and only in a strip about an inch wide, but a foot long, so also perfect for catching tyres.
Posted 11 years ago #
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