(February)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Tram latest
(2154 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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“Still looking for a solution to provide increased level (Grade) separation”
Good!!
Any explanations/responsibilities given today for all this?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Clear separation on York Place.
Different contract/contractors??
Or just ‘standard’ lack of attention to detail by CEC/TfE?
Posted 2 years ago # -
York Place and rest of CCWEL is designed by CEC, Leith Walk is designed by tram contractors.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Mmm
Thanks
So
Who’s in charge??
Posted 2 years ago # -
One ‘irony’ is that YP doesn’t have nearly as many pedestrians as LW.
Or cyclists.
Clearly LOTS of bad decisions on LE over last 10 years (and more).
I’m not confident that any rethinks/modifications are going to make things much better.
Will be a fair number of people on bikes sticking to road
And MANY more NOT encouraged to try cycling.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I dunno, it's not going to be brilliant by any means, but I'll take it over dodging vans and buses any day. Sure it'll mean going a bit slower and probably dodging the odd wayward ped, but at least it won't come with the seasonal rotation of rubbish - leaf mulch, then ice, and then a brief respite before it becomes a fetid tunnel of bugs for six months - you have to deal with on the railway paths.
Let's just hope the council learn their lesson for once - hah - and stop treating cycling infra as something to be tacked in to whatever "proper" construction happens to be doing on nearby using crappy design & build contracts.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm glad we're getting something given the first consultation was for painted lane, but it's still disappointing to see the missed opportunities.
The junctions should hopefully be a good part, even with some odd material choices.
Posted 2 years ago # -
y use of the lane will depend very much on what the road space around the rails is like. There'll be no such choice on Constitution St.
Posted 2 years ago # -
A good find by @CycleAlex of revised landscaping plans, but it is damning indictment of the mediocrity of the whole process that "landscaping" (or rather, perhaps, streetscape) can still be fiddled with significantly while construction is underway and with no public consultation on what actually happens on the ground.
Cycling and walking crossings of the tramline (and routes alongside) should really be counted first and foremost as proper transport infrastructure, and not just "unimportant" greenery 'trivia', which is clearly the mindset that allows such things to happen.
These drawings are a later revision to those which I had last seen, and aren't good.
I haven't looked through them all in detail yet, but one very noticeable and unacceptable change is that at most/every junction where you might need to cross the tram tracks, and where previously the plan had shown some outline 'paint' 'guide' lines across (à la Princes St post-construction bodges) and said "details to be finalised", we now seem to have "final"(?) details of (virtually) nothing, or rather "sue us when you get entrapped because of our poor design".
Examples:
Crossing the tracks eastbound at a very shallow angle (Garve-style) at the entrance to Melrose Dr from Lindsay Rd (opposite Chancelot Mill). The footway alongside should be moved so that there can be a separate cycleway crossing of the tracks at a 45 - 60° angle (this is just basic). (My hunch is that most people wanting to go that way towards Ocean Terminal will just hop off the road and use the path in front of the new flats which were stupidly permitted to intrude too far on to the tram corridor, and then alongside the tramline.)
Crossroads south of Ocean Terminal (and main access to it) where the tracks turn through 90°: nothing. Even the south-north pedestrian crossing is too far set back from the junction and staggered in the middle (and wait for two phases, I'm sure). Pathetic.
There is/was a notionally delineated (not very visible cycle symbol studs) cycle route along the frontage of Ocean Terminal, but no attempt to incorporate this into the plans. Nor anything in the southwest-bound direction, just a narrow footway in front of the flats under construction, where it even looks like planting for the flats effectively steals land and space from the narrow public footway! Similarly nothing at the junction north of Ocean Terminal (if you need to cross the tracks to go to the offices there). And where/how will terminating buses turn around now?
Similarly, nothing at the Ocean Dr junctions with Tower Place, Ocean way/Constitution St, etc…
(That's enough exasperation for now, I'm sure there's more to see, sadly.)
Posted 2 years ago # -
God they can put all the lipstick on that pig they want, that final Picardy gyratory is just a complete traffic sewer.
Posted 2 years ago # -
“that final Picardy gyratory is just a complete traffic sewer”
Is it finished??…
Serious question (I should know the answer) - is the St James car park open?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Apparently so -
“
Our car park contains 1,600+ spaces, including 70 disabled parking bays scattered throughout the car park, motorcycle & scooter spaces and dedicated parking spaces for families, placed strategically near welcome points. There are also bicycle racks located in areas near the Quarter for your convenience.
Via Car:
If visiting St James Quarter by car, please use one of the following postcodes for your navigation system:
St James Place car park entrance:
EH1 3BPLeith Street car park entrance:
EH1 3ASPlease note that despite the ongoing tram work on Picardy Place, both of our Car Park entrances and exits on Leith Street and St James Place are operating as normal and can be accessed for your convenience.
“
Anyone used the bike racks or noticed how full/empty the car park is?
Posted 2 years ago # -
@chdot I meant the designs dave linked to.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@davecykl Some good news is that the Melrose Drive crossing has been fixed to have a better angle. The rest is still a bit rubbish... I don't believe there will be early release cycle signals either like those currently being retrofitted to the existing line. Attitude of (external) designers seems to be that because the Leith Connections segregated route is being built they don't really have to care about bikes.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@chdot The Sheffield stands are pretty popular, particularly the relatively new ones opposite the Omni centre. Never seen more than one or two people using the two-tier parking.
Posted 2 years ago # -
“I meant the designs dave linked to“
Yes
I know it’s not finished. Current condition seems to change every time I have to do anything near it - often involves some riding on pavement due to state of traffic! (Slowly and carefully of course.)
BUT
I have no confidence that ‘final’ version will be exactly same as any plans!
Posted 2 years ago # -
“particularly the relatively new ones opposite the Omni centre”
Yes, used them on Friday.
Unfortunately I took “There are also bicycle racks located in areas near the Quarter for your convenience” to mean they actually had some in their car park, under cover.
Oh the naivety of youth.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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(Not Edinburgh obviously)
Taken 6 years to get to a prosecution. Is that ‘thorough’ or slow?
Posted 2 years ago # -
“
Trams to Newhaven: Extension will be open for business by in early 2003
“
(Well it is the ENews)
OR
“
New Edinburgh tram line on track to open in spring 2023, council says
“
Posted 2 years ago # -
“
Following the identification of new bodywork cracks on our older trams, West Midlands Metro has taken the difficult decision to temporarily suspend services so detailed inspections can be undertaken by the manufacturer.
“
https://westmidlandsmetro.com/temporary-service-suspended-to-enable-detailed-inspections/
Posted 2 years ago # -
Since when: https://westmidlandsmetro.com/trams-set-to-undergo-major-panel-replacement/
Detailed inspections of bodywork cracks have been undertaken on our older trams and repairs are required across the fleet. Midland Metro Limited (MML) is requiring the manufacturer to replace the panels rather than repair the existing panels to ensure the future reliability and robustness of the service. Unfortunately, this means the service will be suspended for a number of weeks.
These are the same trams as are used on the Edinburgh system (CAF Urbos 3).
AFAIK the fleet of new Hitachi high-speed passenger trains (IEP/class 80x/"Azuma") is still undergoing remedial works following the discovery of cracks in the body/underframe of the coaches.
One might almost get the impression that rolling stock manufacturers have forgotten how to design robust vehicles. Flawed finite element analysis algorithms? Poor manufacturing quality control? Materials supplied not being up to to spec? (Ask Thomas Bouch about that one.)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yaw damping has been an issue with every high speed Hitachi train in the UK yaw, pitch and roll are the rotations of a vehicle in 3 planes
Yaw - horizontal
Pitch - vertical (HST's got this Zebedee effect)
Roll - around axisThe Class 395 trains on HS1 had the issue and heavy wear in the yaw damper bushes but had a different (fabricated?) bolster beam
Class 80x - the trains that DfT decided would be standard for ALL main line express services have a cast? bolster beam and 26 metre carriages, a change that messed up train servicing depots set up for 23m carriages....
Class 385 (new Scotrail trains) also have cracking, and a train with strain gauges fitted is running. The trains only run at 100mph, with 23m carriages, and make stop-start journeys in contrast to the 125mph long steady running on continuous welded rail that the 80x trains do.
Speculating slightly there may be some parallels with the derailments of short wheelbase goods wagons in the 1960's and 1970's as more freight trains were running at faster, steady speeds on welded rail, and the short wheelbase trucks - similar to a bogie - began hunting as the conicity of the tyres and train speeds hit a critical point, and there were no rail joints to interrupt the increasing oscillations, so a lot of fast steady running will create forces on the yaw damper and its mountings.
CAF - the carriages on new sleeper, and Nova 2 and 3 TPE trains also had yaw damper bracket failures, replicating the same issue with Iarnrod Eireann carriages with the same design detail - a fundamental error here - using the t-slots in the floor extrusions that were OK for static loads of underfloor equipment to fix the yaw damper bracket (taking cyclic loads) with the same fixings as the static load system, so the bracket fixings cracked, and the end of the yaw damper fell down.... if the defect wasn't spotted in time
Still there might be one up-side. If there is a major campaign to modify every Class 80x (LNER, TPE, Luma, EMR, GWR, Hull Trains (& Avanti to come)) then the time out of service might permit changing the hideous bike stowage spaces, or even doing what Scotrail should be delivering this summer with HST's - removing 3 pairs of fixed seats to create space for 4 bikes , on their wheels, in the saloon area with 6 tip-up seats
Posted 2 years ago # -
The Office of Road and Rail (ORR) has published a report on the cracking issues in the Hitachi trains:
https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/rail-regulator-publishes-class-800-series-safety-report
ORR’s review concluded that on the vehicle body in the area above the wheels close to the yaw damper bracket and anti-roll bar fixing points, fatigue cracking was caused by the trains experiencing greater loads from train movement than allowed for in the original design. It is not yet known for certain why this happened, although potential factors include wheel wear and track design.
Additional cracks found in the area where the lifting plates attach to the vehicle body were the result of stress corrosion cracking (SCC), resulting from the use of the particular type of 7000 series aluminium in various areas of the Hitachi Rail Class 800 series.
The characteristics of the specific aluminium alloy in combination with built-in stresses from being welded to the body and exposure to air containing chloride resulted in cracking.
...
Hitachi Rail plans to replace the affected part of the original body structure, including the longitudinal welds where the fatigue cracks have occurred, and the mounting brackets. Hitachi Rail has also proposed to modify the addition of bolts to retain the plate in the unlikely event that the welds fail completely as a result of the stress corrosion cracking.
It is proposed that this programme is expected to take place over the next six years in order to minimise disruption to passengers while ensuring safety, with the minimum number of units out of service at any one time.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So they are not THAT dangerous.
Seems possible/likely that the design is based on railway use where track is better laid and looked after and (perhaps more important) doesn’t have sharp curves or steep sections - in the case of St. Andrew Square area, both.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There was a low key row between an ex-CAF engineer & Edinburgh Trams on tyre wear on trams increasing effective back-to back gauge that keeps trams on the rails on tight corners
Severe corners in one sense mean that trams should be periodically 'turned around' to even out tyre wear
The Birmingham track has a particularly tricky curve in lateral axial & vertical planes coming down into Stephenson Street
Edinburgh has had to beef-up the rail fixings on the tight curve at Ingliston P&R by glueing a set of extra baseplates to the concrete, with the tyres noisily grinding as the tram comes in from the Airport other severe bends on Haymarket Terrace, and turning up & over St Andrew Square. At the latter location the use of sand for traction means that the sand migrates down the grooves to build up at the bottom, potentially filling the grooves up and causing a derailment (Trams to Dublin Street?)
Unlike Edinburgh, Birmingham trams have extended sections of high speed running on former main line railway - dead straight for long distances at 50mph, slightly different to the regular running for this design of vehicle. I'm trying to remember how the wheels are attached - individually or as a pair on an axle, which has its own dynamic implications
Posted 2 years ago #
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