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  1. PS
    Member

    Apart from the dubious claim there, why would anyone prioritise a line to an area served by a railway station?

    WHY would CEC propose a project that goes into a neighbouring council that is more interested in building roads??

    Mainly because it will serve the sorts of large institutions (the University, Royal Infirmary, King's Buildings (just about)) that would be ideal for a tram network (and several people argued would have been a better Line 1 than the airport/Edinburgh Park). It also fits with development plans to help "unlock" the BioQuarter development and all that land down there.

    Folk don't seem to want to use the train for short trips. Hopefully they'll prefer a tram.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    That’s different.

    Yes to RIE.

    Yes it probably should have been done before the airport line - but, politics.

    But Shawfair as any sort of CEC priority?

    As I’ve said before, this line should probably be more of a priority than Granton - even if it takes the WGH route.

    Clearly need a proper transport strategy - let’s say for the whole SEStran area - and look at effects of Covid/WFH, SG policies on mileage reduction, funding etc.

    That all said, it’s hard to have a faith that anything much will happen, at least not in a fashion that would improve the way most people get around.

    Is Shawfair more important than Winchburgh?

    Another politician driving the hype on grand projects just messes things up more.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  3. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Folk don't seem to want to use the train for short trips. Hopefully they'll prefer a tram.

    Short trips, or rather, short distances between stops, are why we have trams at all, since the alternative would be 'heavy' rail. Obviously you wouldn't run a class 385 electric in town because it's overbuilt for the task - it's packing nearly 2700 hp, while the Edinburgh tram has about 1300 hp. Even in the days when you could take the train from Waverley to Corstorphine, the motive power was often something like a LNER V1/V3 (60 tonnes) or 2MT (84 tonnes) with no more than six carriages on. The V3s in particular also saw plenty of use on routes like Edinburgh to Helensburgh, which might be a bit of a stretch in a tram (though in my opinion, the faux leather seats in Edinburgh trams (56 tonnes) are more comfortable even than the firm, bristly feeling seats in the IEP class 800s to London.)

    Servicing a route like Princes St to Shawfair is definitely light rail territory; you can take a train from Waverley to Shawfair of course but it's barely up to speed until you get out past Newtongrange. The middle ground of course is the extensions to the London Underground that are mostly overground, trundling free, and which cover quite a distance. The trips I've done in London were usually up to 20 miles on the train (via the tube, DLR, overground) but none had a single leg more than about ten miles. Even Waverley to Shawfair is only five or six miles.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  4. Dave
    Member

    Not sure about Shawfair, but if they took the tram down to the park and ride you'd have to believe it would displace a lot of car traffic inc. to the RIE

    Posted 1 year ago #

  5. jonty
    Member

    Yeah key destination must be park and ride, with Shawfair just a handy (and perhaps one day useful) terminus.

    How many on the current tram route are desperate to get to Newhaven?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  6. ejstubbs
    Member

    The article linked by Councillor SA (and chdot on here) does mention the park and ride.

    TBH my impression was that everything north east of the A7 at that location is Shawfair - specifically, in that area it's Shawfair Business Park. All the new street names reflect that. The fact that the P&R retains the Sherriffhall name seems like a bit of a hangover from previous times. I doubt anyone would be particularly confused if it were to be renamed Shawfair Park & Ride.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I was perhaps muddying the waters in names for things, but I agree that a tram would best serve the park and ride but ought to connect with Shawfair station as well.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  8. LaidBack
    Member

    @chdot- is Shawfair more important than Winchburgh?

    Answer...

    https://www.winchburghdevelopments.com/news/winchburgh-pupils-gain-exclusive-entry-to-new-m9-motorway-junction/

    Noticed how well ahead they were with this other day - only started in 2021. Private housebuilders hooking into M9 to allow future EVs easy access to escape routes from WL. Cycle paths are being built too of course but for sheer fast heavyweight diggery you can't beat a road project! #backtothefuture

    Posted 1 year ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    “TBH my impression was that everything north east of the A7 at that location is Shawfair“

    Ah yes there is that!

    Wouldn’t be the first time a railway station was nowhere near the place whose name it shares (not quite on the Ryanair scale…)

    But this time the station came before most of the building!

    “I doubt anyone would be particularly confused if it were to be renamed Shawfair Park & Ride.”

    Depends. Pretty big car park by the railway station.

    OK, looked at Google not as big a car park as I remembered/expected.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    “Cycle paths are being built too of course“

    All the way to Edinburgh??

    Posted 1 year ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    “the new M9 Winchburgh junction will provide commuters and day trippers with an alternative faster route into Winchburgh Village”

    ???

    Posted 1 year ago #

  12. Frenchy
    Member

    Answer...

    https://www.winchburghdevelopments.com/news/winchburgh-pupils-gain-exclusive-entry-to-new-m9-motorway-junction/

    Shawfair's getting a big new trunk road junction too, of course!

    Posted 1 year ago #

  13. Frenchy
    Member

    ???

    https://www.transport.gov.scot/transport-network/roads/m9-winchburgh-junction/

    The long-promised train station has, naturally, been kicked into the long grass whilst the motorway junction goes full steam ahead.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    Was ??? the idea of a quicker way to the Village!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Posted 1 year ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    “

    The SNP's election manifesto had included a pledge to "redirect" the £1.1 billion spending planned on the two schemes and mentioned a £4 million investment in modern buses, as a more effective alternative to the trams. Mr Swinney told the Cabinet cancellation costs would be up to £125m for the trams and £50m for EARL. The minutes note there was "a significant political debate to be had about the merits of the current tram scheme". But it added it would be "preferable from a presentational point of view" to persuade parliament of the merits of an alternative approach "rather than to be defeated on the issue". The Cabinet agreed Mr Swinney should do more work on the proposals before asking Cabinet for a final decision.

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-trams-what-was-said-at-alex-samonds-cabinet-meetings-ahead-of-the-attempt-to-scrap-the-project-in-2007-3965110

    Posted 1 year ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-trams-free-travel-for-under-22s-and-over-60s-should-be-funded-by-scottish-government-says-lothian-tory-msp-3969121

    Posted 1 year ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Wow…the first test runs for the long-delayed final stretch of Edinburgh’s tram line will begin next month, exactly 16 years after the first work began. The first public services linking Newhaven & Leith with the city centre are on track to begin in May.

    “

    https://mobile.twitter.com/brianjaffa/status/1621545136399290368

    Posted 1 year ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13640/two-way-traffic-and-trams-set-for-leith-walk

    Posted 1 year ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-locals-welcome-return-normality-26171257?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  21. neddie
    Member

    What does it mean "buffering of the tram tracks"?

    Is it meant to read "buffing the tram tracks" i.e. cleaning out the debris? Or is it removing the buffer at York Pl and putting at Newhaven?

    Also, journos don't seem to know the difference between "affect" and "effect"

    Posted 1 year ago #

  22. Arellcat
    Moderator

    It could be 'buffing', perhaps akin to defodding a runway, but the quote has been used verbatim in several online publications. But I sort of suspect it really is 'buffering' in respect of the opening of the York Place extension.

    Posted 1 year ago #

  23. Morningsider
    Member

    Could it mean removing the buffers at York Place? Possibly "un-buffering"?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Businesses in Bernard Street say they have been "forgotten" and used as a "dumping ground" during construction of the new tramline. Businesses in Bernard Street say they have been "forgotten" and used as a "dumping ground" during construction of the new tramline. And now she is angry the redesign of the street will not include any parking or loading bay near the row of shops. "We have been forgotten about," she said. "They haven't thought about how businesses are going to get serviced in our street, they just want to turn it into a plaza.

    The plans show lots of trees and benches, but none of the immediate businesses were consulted. On paper it looks lovely, but it's not going to work. No-one going to sit out on this side of the street. The wind just hurtles through here – there's nobody going to be sitting there pretending it's the riviera."

    And she argues the lack of parking or loading bays will undermine the aim of creating a pleasant pedestrian area. "You can already see it – trucks moving onto pavements, parking on double yellow lines, because everyone is looking to get their products in to be able to function as a business. They'd be better taking it back and amending the design – that happens in most building contracts – and putting in a bay where people can pull in, disabled people can be dropped off and so on."

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-tramworks-businesses-in-leiths-bernard-street-leith-say-they-have-been-forgotten-and-ignored-4021659

    Posted 1 year ago #

  25. neddie
    Member

    they just want to turn it into a plaza

    The horror!

    We can't be having nice things like Italian style piazzas! It might draw in people and increase business - "we're a local shop, for local people!"

    Oh and the ol' "consultation" word again...

    "consultation" == "you're taking away MY illegal parking or MY 'right' to drive through here at speed"

    Posted 1 year ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Edinburgh Granton to Little France tram line 'will open in 2035 at the latest'

    “

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-granton-little-france-tram-26211667

    Posted 1 year ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    “

    That's just the headline, this will go to Shawfair and perhaps Dalkeith. Alternatively, Musselburgh is an option.

    “

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1624389913549459456

    (See previous post)

    Posted 1 year ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    “

    Speaking at the Edinburgh Tourism Action Group conference, Mr Lowder suggested people could expect the extended tram service to be operational by 21 June, insisting it would still count as "late spring."

    “

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/june-opening-date-revealed-for-edinburghs-new-waterfront-tram-link-4024197

    Posted 1 year ago #

  29. gembo
    Member

    When he says it goes down what was an urban railway, has he omitted - and is now a very well used cycle path?

    Posted 1 year ago #

  30. Frenchy
    Member

    He has, yes (although there is, I'm told, plenty of room for both a tramline and a cycle path). Also, wee birdies had told me that an on-road route via Orchard Brae was now likely to be preferred.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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