CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

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  1. chdot
    Admin


    Only a truly connected Edinburgh will be able to meet the challenges of the future Edinburgh is changing at a rapid pace. We’re the fastest growing city in Scotland, at twice the rate of Glasgow, in the fastest growing region in the country.

    This trend represents significant opportunities in terms of economic growth, investment and jobs but also places increasing pressure on our communities, and on the city’s transport infrastructure. We’re also facing into the climate, nature, and housing emergencies, alongside the urgent need to tackle poverty and improve the life chances of people living in the poorest areas of our city.

    (Good argument for http://www.Powderhall.Link…)

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/fast-growing-edinburgh-stands-at-a-crossroads-and-its-trams-are-key-8751466?v%3D

    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

  3. Yodhrin
    Member

    Oh forgot to mention, I emailed Spokes about the ebikes on trams thing, apparently they have set a meeting with ET to discuss it and see what the heck is going on. If anyone else has been impacted or knows someone who has, it may help to also email Spokes and let them know your situation as well to give them more ammo?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    Elph

    Among his many community and social projects, Brian worked with North Edinburgh Arts in Muirhouse, Lothian Cat Rescue and a project to brighten the city during tram construction works. His small mural ‘The Fairy Boy of Leith’ on Leith Walk was inspired by a 17th century folk tales of a young child believed to have second sight, who would commune with elves on Calton Hill by night. Brian continued to make long ‘joiner’ pieces beside the Newhaven tram tracks up until very recently with Many Style Crew members.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/health/26233111.talented-street-artist-huge-heart-dies-aged-48/

    https://archive.ph/nw0qE

    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. Tulyar
    Member

    @yodhrin as with the rampant abuse of e-mopeds through the unregulated commercial use of public roads with illegally 'employed' gig workers where the principals (Just Eat etc) fail to keep records
    We also fail miserably with trading standards (Edinburgh Council) failing to regulate the sale of illegal (for road use) and dangerous (wiring & control circuits) battery powered vehicles
    The Dutch, at government level have impounded container-loads of dangerous battery powered machines, and the local councils closed down retailers selling these machines
    In the UK all electric MOPEDS should be sold with a form V5 to register these as motor vehicles & ensure the legal criteria are delivered at the point of sale
    Eliminating the sale of dangerous lithium ion battery powered kit should reduce the fire risk through eliminating the high risk of short circuits & cell failures in these batteries with bad & cheap circuits
    The Union Street fire in Glasgow also highlighted a serious hole in legislation for storage of lithium battery equipment which needs the same levels of fire containment as flammable products like organic solvents & gas cylinders etc
    A wake-up call which is being ignored?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. Tulyar
    Member

    @chdot Lee Harrison seems to have jumped from the frying pan into the fire with his move to replace Jane Cole - wife of Barry Cole who was a railway manager covering the WCML routes in Lancashire & other transport projects, as his move to Blackpool Trams landed at the same time as their heritage tram base (the old Rigby Road depot was condemned, and then the wheel condition for their new Flexcity tram fleet was given a safety close-down order by ORR, due to the raised risks of derailments with worn tyres
    Blackpools trams are Alsthom - Edinburghs are CAF but I've noted some internal rows concerning the tyre wear & thus risks of flange climbing & derailments
    All this is somewhat technical & would relate to operating trams on railway tracks, where pointwork & other detail requires certain adaptations. Happy to discuss off CCE forum with engineers, as I've been building railways & tram tracks since 1968 (when I was building a new railway as a volunteer in N Wales, alongside John Grimshaw, before he started building cycle routes!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

  8. Yodhrin
    Member

    @Tulyar Yeah sorry man, I don't buy it. The actual risk is statistically nonexistent(I've currently got an FoI request in with Merseyrail about their supposed "safety review" to find out what evidence and criteria they used in their ban, and Edinburgh Trams will be getting the same if Spokes can't get them to back down - I suspect the answer in weaselly terms will be "sweet FA" and that this is happening almost exclusively at the behest of one particular union who are using a single incident on a platform on the London Underground as an excuse to push a full ban with operators nationwide as they did in London, why I have no idea).

    Powered wheelchairs are still allowed, mobility scooters are still allowed - their batteries are at least as large as any EAPC, and I've known people who've replaced old failed battery packs in mobility devices with "shonky foreign jobs" because the official replacements were so expensive when out of warranty. Laptops and mobiles are still allowed despite the fact that there have been scandals in recent years where both types of device exploded or caught fire either injuring people or burning down buildings.

    Lithium batteries and their risks are simply part of modern life, there is no rational, evidence-based reason I've yet seen to specifically single out ebikes and hold them to a different standard.

    I've seen suggestions that the various bans are less about battery safety and more about the wider context; they always seem to be happening in places that are working to enable more cycling and encourage multimodal journeys but where operators have invested in infrastructure and rolling stock with poor provision for bicycles, and banning ebikes which are quickly becoming the main kind of bicycle people use for utility transport is a way of simply not having to deal with the increased demand for capacity, a way for their staff to not have to deal with customers forced to wait on a platform because a train or tram only has space for two bikes. A cop out, essentially.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  9. Arellcat
    Moderator

    @Yodhrin, I'm sure I've posted about this before in here but the search function is broken.

    It would be instructive to ask CEC to show their risk assessment criteria. Back of the envelope thinking here, but an e-bike battery fire onboard a tram may be rare or unlikely in terms of likelihood – itself a combination of likelihood that a bike onboard is an e-bike and that the e-bike is a bit shonky. The inherent likelihood of a shinky e-bike is reduced because those bikes are mostly not being brought onboard trams in the first place. At any rate, combine that likelihood score with a major or severe impact were it to occur and you still get an overall risk that is three or four times smaller than the highest possible risk.

    The control measure would therefore be simply to remove the source of risk altogether (that is, "NO E-BIKES"), since "NO BIKES" would be an unreasonable level of mitigation.

    There is possibly some confirmation bias on both sides, since e-bikes in Edinburgh may constitute a higher proportion of bikes in daily use compared with other cities with trams that allow bikes onboard, if there are any. One counter argument I often thought about is how the scoring of impact ought to allow for the fact that an e-bike battery contains far more energy than most other lithium batteries we carry every day, in our bags, pockets and on our wrists. But even a phone battery contains enough energy to produce quite a decent little fire, enough probably to cause panic amongst passengers, probably not enough to set a tram on fire though.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Tulyar is right to call out the gig worker economy for encouraging unchecked proliferation of electric mopeds masquerading as e-bikes, and whatever underground movement exists to service that demand – but to bring the argument back to trams, the likelihood of such an e-bike catching fire onboard a tram is surely the same as one catching fire not onboard a tram. How often does that actually happen? I'm sure it must do occasionally; I've never seen one in flames but I'm not in town 24 hours a day. And how often does an e-bike from a reputable brand catch fire? I've even less seen that happen.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  11. Dave
    Member

    IIRC the government were consulting about recognising ebikes as mobility aids in some context or other (the bar for a building, or a tram operator or train station to ban an electric mobility aid seems to be extremely high, whereas for the same battery installed on a bike, the bar is very low). Not sure where that's at, or if it would generally undermine ebike bans.

    My current office allows you to bring anything in, but not charge it. We no longer transport the kids by ebike/trailer or e-cargo bike, but there was a point in time where an office ebike ban would have meant driving them to nursery and taking a bus or regular bike on from there, the kind of social impact that a government wanting to promote greener travel might be interested to legislate to protect..

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    Well (part of) problem is fear of things (fires etc) that are mostly(?) caused by illegal bikes

    And (apparent) inability to enforce existing laws and/or amend laws as required

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    Princes Street fire: Council considering moving trams by road to enable Leith service

    https://archive.ph/ko8ee

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Most public transport operators, train operators especially, don't pass on their full operating costs to travellers, and the notion that they 'must' return a profit is perverse.

    Publicly funded public transport exists to provide a service to the public.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  16. Morningsider
    Member

    Ah, yes - the famous "Schrodinger's tram". Simultaneously a loss making white elephant, yet also so essential to transport in the city that the partial suspension of services poses an existential threat to the viability of Leith businesses and the city's tourist economy.

    Posted 2 weeks ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Frustrated passengers who normally rely on the tram to get around now face waiting for Princes Street to be reopened, which the council is aiming to do by August 26.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/princes-street-fire-hopes-of-temporary-service-between-city-centre-and-newhaven-are-dashed-8875625

    Posted 2 days ago #
  18. LaidBack
    Member

    Was musing on Bluesky how Edinburgh Airport with 15 million passengers per annum has a few bus options at its front door. (They pay the airport apparently to get through the security barriers)
    LRT into city and Ember, 747, Citylink and others going to towns and cities elsewhere.
    Changing to tram and other modes pretty poor at Waverley really (23 million passengers per annum).
    Haymarket easier but tram platform far too small for demand of buses and trams - particularly at moment.

    Posted 1 day ago #

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