CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Cyclists in South West Edinburgh

(43 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by lionfish
  • Latest reply from Arellcat

12

  1. lionfish
    Member

    I've volunteered to take part in the South West Neighbourhood Partnership Transport & Environment forum, as a representative of the "cycling community" (and maybe people-who-want-to-cycle?), in part I'm to put SPOKES' position, but I also feel I should represent the wider cycling community. I figure the best place to ask for cycling opinions is CCE!

    So if you live (or cycle) in SW Edinburgh let me know of what issues you think are important (where do you feel most nervous cycling? What tweaks might improve things the most?)

    [agenda/more info follows...!]

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Dave
    Member

    Can you delineate 'south west' for us?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    Presumably -

    http://www.edinburghnp.org.uk/neighbourhood-partnerships/south-west

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. Dave
    Member

    Thanks, I'm feeling informed now!

    We live in South Central. Makes it all sound a bit gangsta...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. lionfish
    Member

    Ok, this is all a bit vague, I've just tried to extract the key points. Sorry if it doesn't make sense! I sometimes tried to put my comments in [brackets] but kept forgetting...

    The cycling-related items on the agenda are:

    - Shared Use of the Canal Path
    Basically they're going for "Encouragement not enforcement" and the "Promotion of shared use culture". Any thoughts on this? recent SPOKES leaflet useful?

    - Draft Parking Improvement Plan for Shandon
    There is concern that emergency vehicles can't get in, and non-residents park in the area.

    Suggestion is made that several restrictions could be lifted (to keep public support for more restrictions on narrow roads).
    One suggestion that stuck out was: "Removing the single yellow line on Harrison Gardens between the corners of Ashley Terrace and Ogilvie Terrace"
    My thoughts are that this hill is quite steep so I'm often very slow up it, so the overtaking space is quite important. Maybe make Shandon Road 20mph 24/7?

    They're thinking about encouraging cycling as an alternative to car-ownership. 4 points are listed:
    looking at canal as shared use [it already is?!]
    communal bike storage [but the recently planning laws used against people who have installed bike storage seems counterproductive?]
    craiglockhart+sustrans making a bike culture [?]
    "Improvements to road safety...on the nearby main roads would, help encourage more [cycling]". [no details]

    Other things mentioned: Car sharing [city car club], buses. Pavement parking was also mentioned. Problems of overflow parking from controlled zones. Regarding the permit scheme: up to 2 parking permits/household. Cost~£9-£75/year/household.

    Also bit concerned by a phrase "proportionate inforcement" - not sure what that means?

    Finally, I've noticed one or two cars that haven't moved for months (e.g. the one with the flat tyre near Harrison Park). Anyone else notice any? I was aware when we moved to Edinburgh, our car didn't move for weeks at a time - encouraging people in that situation to take the plunge and sell the car might be a solution to the parking problem?

    - Temporary Pedestrian Crossing Lights
    Not clear where this is intended for?
    In general: Slateford Road lacking crossings. Similarly, Stevenson Road/Calder Road. Oddly the 'Traffic Advisory Leaflet 3/11' advices against installing temporary pedestrian crossings on high-speed (over 35mph) roads. [I'd have thought they were the ones that need it the most??] [what do people think about adding islands to roads? squeezes cyclists? but helps people cross?]

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. lionfish
    Member

    Further topics of relevance:
    - On-road cycle storage. May still need people to volunteer to try it out (I'll see at the meeting). Also they're still looking for suggestions about where to place them (one place was somewhere around Polworth Gardens). "We aim to have the facilities available on a trial basis in time for summer 2012" (where are they?).
    - Calder Road cycle lane project? [I don't know what this will consist of]

    Road safety, two suggestions are listed
    - Mobile speed activation signs (vehicles)
    - Speed surveys by Neighbourhood
    if anyone else has some suggestions?
    [I was annoyed that when I expressed concern about Slateford Road speeds, the stats used were across vehicles, not over time, if that makes sense! So I'm concerned any such work could be quite cynically ignored through dodgy use of statistics? Which roads maybe could be made 20mph?]

    Specific suggestions I've received so far from cyclists
    1. that a streetlight be put under the Roseburn Street rail-bridge.
    2. A drop curb be put on Harrison Road where the path from Harrison Park joins it (and move the parking a few feet down the slope so cars aren't parked across it).
    3. Cars not parked across entrances to Harrison Park and canal entrances.
    4. 20mph speed limits on all roads in area.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    a more general point: it needs to be clearer how and to who we take issues. for example, that dropped kerb mentioned above. I have contacted a huge range of individuals and different departments about it over the past two years, and have several times been assured it is 'on a list'. But it has not been dealt with, nor is it at all clear what 'being on a list' means. This is one example, and I'm told that it was an oversight, but i think it flags up the lack of clear ownership of such matters. Not helped by fact that SW partnership boundaries don't coincide at all well with community council boundaries!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. lionfish
    Member

    Thanks SRD: I know what you mean - there are enough departments the buck can be passed indefinitely... I'll ask! (but don't get your hopes up!)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. SRD
    Moderator

    My specifics would be:
    * that dropped kerb (minor, but indicative)
    * canal access for south side of Polwarth (Yeaman place)
    * 20mph everywhere
    * safer junction where Polwarth gardens becomes polwarth grove - cars regularly speed along there, despite the corner being mostly blind, exacerbated by parking/deliveries at scotmid, and many pedestrians crossing the road
    * better/safer access onto Slateford road at Meggetgate

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. fimm
    Member

    Looks like this is my part of the world.
    The most obvious thing that would improve the quality of my cycling life was the road surface in Gorgie Road that has been fixed.

    I will have a think about other things and your points above.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. AKen
    Member

    I would be keen to hear what the 'Calder Road Cycle Lane' might be. However, if it's just painting some lines on what is a busy, high-speed, dual-carriageway with lots of hazardous roundabouts then I'd say - don't waste your money.

    What I would like to see:

    Access at the Bankhead Drive/Cultins Road junction properly sorted so that cyclists can turn up Cultins Road without breaking the law.

    The Bankhead/Broomhouse cycle path restored properly after completion of the tram works, to the high standard that was there previously.

    The Stenhouse end of this path to allow users to safely join the roadway - not just end in a forest of useless signs.

    Traffic lights at the W Approach Road/Roseburn Street juction.

    The short footpath connecting Murrayburn Road/Sighthill Avenue could be widened, made shared-use and provided with dropped kerbs. This would make a very useful short-cut, there's lots of space - and dropped kerbs would help people with buggies/prams as well.

    Access from Yeaman Place to the canal.

    Removal of the daft obstacle course that connects the toucan crossing on the W Approach Road to Upper Grove Place. If ever there was a cycling facility created by someone who'd obviously never cycled, this is it.

    Finally, if money was no object, I'd create a dedicated cycle route on the North side of the W Approach Road, with access from Russell Road to link up with the North Edinburgh path. A few million should cover that.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. cb
    Member

    Better access into the top end of the Telfer underpass cut through.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. gembo
    Member

    What AKen said given my apprehension by the polis

    If I ruled the world WoL path tar macadamised.

    canal towpath tar macadamised all the way to ratio and those strip lights going out further too

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. pixelmix
    Member

    I live just outwith SW, but cycle through daily.

    My main cycling related gripe is the shocking road quality. I've punctured on Colinton Road before purely because of ridiculous and unavoidable potholes, particularly in the Craiglochkart section. I would ride my road bike to work far more often if I didn't fear a puncture every time I take it out.

    I use the canal to get to and from work when it is damp out (quicker and drier than my usual WoL commute) and think the current arrangements generally work well. The path can be a bit overcrowded at certain times, but given the limited options for path widening, there isn't too much that can be done about that.

    On my usual Water of Leith commute, the path through the car park at Saughton Park between the Gorgie Road offshoot and Balgreen Road is currently full of deep potholes which could do with being filled in. Is this a council owned / maintained area? It is popular with cyclists following the Water of Leith.

    You mention 'nervous cycling'. I'm a confident cyclist generally, but when heading southwards on Balgreen Road, I currently have to turn right from a busy 3 lane road to access the abovementioned track past Balgreen Road. Previously I could use the pedestrian crossing, but as the Water of Leith path is currently closed due to tram works, I need to ride down Balgreen Road and turn right at the junction just before the roundabout. I feel vulnerable standing stationary in the right hand lane waiting for a gap in the traffic coming off of the roundabout. It would be good if the council could be reminded of the importance of that closed WoL link, and hopefully encouraged to expedite the reopening of that path when the bridge repairs are complete.

    - Re the WoL tarmac, I disagree. I am a firm believer that we don't need to tarmac the entire countryside. The surface on the WoL in SW generally is okay - it is gravely and relatively well draining from the visitor centre north eastwards. The only section which I have to avoid due to excessive mud is the section from Bridge Road in Colinton to Lanark Road, although that falls under "Pentlands" rather than "SW". That section would be fine if it was better drained. Leaving the path as gravel will also be better in winter when icy new tarmac is far more dangerous than frosty gravel!

    Edit:- thanks to the OP for taking time to collate these viewpoints.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. alibali
    Member

    Thanks for doing this, lionfish.

    My suggestion for something cheap and useful would be to widen the path from Craiglockhart Road North to Allan Park and the Canal up to the bridge. (I'm assuming a wider bridge would be a pipe dream...sorry)

    Oh, and since I live on the 40MPH official council sponsored Craglockhart lights bypass known as the Park I heartily second all the calls for 20MPH limits.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. AKen
    Member

    Re the WoL tarmac, I disagree. I am a firm believer that we don't need to tarmac the entire countryside. The surface on the WoL in SW generally is okay - it is gravely and relatively well draining from the visitor centre north eastwards. The only section which I have to avoid due to excessive mud is the section from Bridge Road in Colinton to Lanark Road, although that falls under "Pentlands" rather than "SW". That section would be fine if it was better drained. Leaving the path as gravel will also be better in winter when icy new tarmac is far more dangerous than frosty gravel!

    I made the mistake of cycling along the WOL path yesterday night from the WOL visitor center as far as Currie. I should know better by now but I thought I could avoid the worst of the wind by taking this route. The surface is apalling for long stretches and I was absolutely filthy by the time I got home.

    I understand your point about frosty gravel being safer than frosty tarmac - but right now it's just mud for long stretches with poor traction (I could feel my wheels slipping under me at many points) and loads of puddles.

    This route has the potential to be really useful but in its current state it's very unpleasant to use. A high-traction surface (like that used on the canal path) with proper run-off to avoid standing water accumulating would make such a difference.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. pixelmix
    Member

    but right now it's just mud for long stretches with poor traction (I could feel my wheels slipping under me at many points) and loads of puddles.

    I can't argue with your comments on the mud. I avoid that section after rainfall as I know how muddy it can be. I am lucky in that I can nip up towards Craiglockhart Drive South from the visitor centre and skip that muddy section. If you ride the section up to Craiglochart Drive South, you will see why I prefer a better quality gravel surface. That section is generally dry enough and not too muddy, even on damp days. That type of surface along the WoL more generally would be excellent and no doubt cheaper than tarmac. The section you mention was resurfaced a year or so ago, and appears to be mushier now than before. I think the council laid some sort of gravity doubling surface which is like a sponge when wet.

    Anyway, apologies for the sidetrack there - the most troublesome section of WoL is in "Pentland", not "SW", so, erm, back on topic...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    Colinton Road!!! This is what I meant to post, and then got distracted with that long list. Especially the bit from the roundabout w/Polwarth terrace past the tennis centre. There is a long and bumpy 'patch' put in right where too many cyclists would feel pressured to cycle (door zone), and in rainy weather the whole road is awash with loose gravel/crumbled asphalt. I suppose some people avoid this section by using canal, but I am either coming from Polwarth (no canal access) or from Holy Corner.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. lionfish
    Member

    Thanks everyone for such a fantastic list. I'll try to summarise all this in time for the meeting tomorrow. Minimoth had the idea that I print out this thread and take a few copies to the meeting, to show how the feedback is from many different people, and how people are discussing these issues here. It might mean the people involved will start looking at the forum!!

    I'll take some of Friday morning off to cycle out to some of the areas you've highlighted. One problem is that I live at the Northern end of the area, so don't regularly cycle/visit most of the SW-district.

    Regarding the WoL and canal tarmacing: There's definitely a mix of opinions on that, and I'm thinking with the limited budget/time/political will, I should focus on some of the more unanimous things? Although the muddy mess along bits of the WoL could be rectified without recourse to asphalt - the gravel/better drainage option is probably a very good compromise.

    Just to say: All I can do is try to relay these issues on. I've no idea what influence this group has, so it might be nothing happens on any of them. I'll also try to get an idea of whether I should try to prioritise 'easy-wins' or the more ambitious goals.

    Finally, I'm aware that the users of the CCE forum aren't exactly fully representative of the strata of society, and there are areas of the SW that aren't represented here, where the issues around cycling might be quite different. So I'll need to figure out how to get their views too. Still, for my first meeting I hope I've got quite a good idea of what people want. Thanks again for giving so much feedback. I'll get back to you next week with how the meeting went! (keep the ideas coming - the meeting's not until tomorrow afternoon)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. fimm
    Member

    OK, a few random thoughts/responses.

    : "Removing the single yellow line on Harrison Gardens between the corners of Ashley Terrace and Ogilvie Terrace"
    My thoughts are that this hill is quite steep ...     eh? That bit is flat... and don't people park both sides there anyway?

    However, if it's just painting some lines on what is a busy, high-speed, dual-carriageway with lots of hazardous roundabouts then I'd say - don't waste your money.
    Agreed. I avoid the Calder Road if I possibly can.

    My suggestion for something cheap and useful would be to widen the path from Craiglockhart Road North to Allan Park and the Canal up to the bridge.
    A good idea, though access to the canal at that bridge involves steps, doesn't it? (Usable ones, I think I have taken a bike that way but I can't remember.)

    Totally agree with SRD about the road surface on Collinton Road. I know exactly the dodgy patch in the door zone she mentions...
    The other bit of dodgy surface I think I'm thinking of is just where you turn into Shandon Place from Slateford Road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. AKen
    Member

    Regarding the WoL and canal tarmacing: There's definitely a mix of opinions on that, and I'm thinking with the limited budget/time/political will, I should focus on some of the more unanimous things? Although the muddy mess along bits of the WoL could be rectified without recourse to asphalt - the gravel/better drainage option is probably a very good compromise.

    As the worst bit of the path is not actually in the SW area, I would probably avoid it in favour of focusing on other matters for locations within the SW boundary.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Nelly
    Member

    "@nelly0168 have had an update on this path. It will be inspected this week & you will get a full response by 21st Nov"

    Response from @southwest_team on my complaints re: broomhouse path

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. lionfish
    Member

    @AKen - sorry it's late notice, but could you explain the Bankhead Drive/Cultins Road problem in more detail? I feel like a traffic planner, looking at the junction from a satellite.
    also: - re the Stenhouse end of that cycle path and the problem you describe. The SPOKES map says there'll be an offroad cycle path following the tram route over the new bridge to join up with Balgreen. What's the latest look like over there (any sign of this?). Also, presumably this isn't much use if you want to keep going though...?

    @fimm - maybe you're right, I assumed they meant this bit up to the bridge http://goo.gl/maps/Ayj5h ? Good point that the double-yellow is on the other side. I think it's steep anyway ;P

    Thanks all again - now I've read through the suggestions carefully, I'm a bit worried the group will not be able to do that much. I think it's useful to raise this list, to illustrate how much is needed! I'll see tomorrow what sort of stuff is possible...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. gembo
    Member

    Lionfish

    Your approach seems sensible, I only suggested Tarmac in an If I Ruled The World moment, which I don't

    I think, in case AKen doesn't get back soon enough that I know the issue as I was lifted by the polis at the spot.

    heading west towards hermiston gait there is a cut through that cars aren't allowed on but they use it frequently to get to M8. buses are allowed through but never do. Bikes are not allowed through. Then when you take the left turn it is one way up Cultins Road but this is often ignored by cyclists. It wouldn't take much to make this stretch cyclist friendly. I am concerned this might not be exactly what AKen meant and that I have not really clarified things, but you never know.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. lionfish
    Member

    @gembo - thanks, I'll probably have to go and visit that bit (google street-view is a bit confusing).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. fimm
    Member

    @lionfish that makes more sense wrt yellow lines. That bit is indeed steep to ascend and the road narrows a bit there as well so it is nice to be able to get well in to the kerb as opposed to having to keep well out to avoid the door zone.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. friskiffla
    Member

    I second AKen and gembo about the entry to Cultins Rd at the Edinburgh Park end. It wouldn't be difficult to sort. E.g. review whether the one way section is still needed (I've never seen it used by a bus.... never ever) and scrapping it if not (perhaps entry for bikes only if its use by car drivers would be a problem). Tons of cyclists go up Cultins Rd so it is not like it is benefitting just a few. Tried writing the the council about it a while ago but nothing.

    I dislike Cultins Rd in general, particularly getting onto it from the canal. You have to edge out between parked cars onto a busy road, including plenty lorries.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. Nelly
    Member

    The one way at Edinburgh Park Station is definitely used by buses, but I agree that access to Cultins is a problem - if you want to stay within the law.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. friskiffla
    Member

    I see buses go along the bit that runs parallel to the railway line (sorry don't know what it is called). I've definitely never seen a single bus turn out of the junction at the bottom of Cultins Rd onto it though.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. Morningsider
    Member

    Re Cultins Road-Bankhead Drive. You can legally cycle along this despite what ths signs say (Authorised buses only). Cultins Road/Bankhead Drive are designated as a core path. The provisions of Section 7(1) of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 mean that any way designated as a core path can be used by cyclists and pedestrians and that this designation over-rides any previous restrictions imposed on the use of the way by cyclists and pedestrians.

    I'm sure someone at the Council would be able to confirm this if people are particularly concerned to stay on the right side of the law.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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