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"Sharing paths with walkers: a Code of Conduct for cyclists"

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  1. Kenny
    Member

    The reason why dog owners only rarely control their dogs on shared use paths (let alone put them on a short lead) is because many clearly think that cyclists should not be there (even if technically allowed), therefore why should they consider how they might inconvenience cyclists?

    Various comments in this thread (and/or maybe others of late) are suggesting that dog owners are not supposed to let their dogs off their leads on shared use paths, or if they are off the lead, then the inference seems to be that the dogs much be kept "under control" to the extent that they are beside their owner, walking to heel, 100% of the time.

    As a dog owner myself, I'm confused by these sentiments. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the points being made, but this is the way I'm reading them. And to be perfectly honest, I'm confused, because I wasn't aware of any kind of law or rule that said I can't let my dogs off the lead on a shared use path and let them run around.

    If a cyclist is sharing the use of the path, that's fine, but who is to say that the cyclist has priority over the dog and/or its owner? I come across dogs regularly on my daily commute on the cycle path from Ocean Terminal up to the Red Bridge, and many times I've had to brake suddenly because a wayward dog has decided that they want to play with my front wheel. That's life - it's a shared path, I don't have more rights than the dog and the owner. I simply avoid the dog, and continue on my way.

    But then, I could be missing out on something. Maybe there's some rules in the Highway Code or something similar that makes it clear that this shouldn't be allowed?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. stiltskin
    Member

    ^^^
    A couple of years ago I read a thread (or a news report, I can't remember which) from Fife (Glenrothes I think) where a cyclist on a cyclepath had hit a dog. The cyclist was injured, the dog died.

    The dog's owner was prosecuted for failing to keep the dog under proper control.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. amir
    Member

    Highway code
    "42. Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists."

    More generally what is needed is mutual respect and good manners.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "More generally what is needed is mutual respect and good manners."

    Not least because the Highway Code is not the same as "the law".

    So it's not illegal not to have a dog on a short lead.

    Likewise it's not a legal requirement to follow all the 'shoulds' in the HC - but if there's an incident, both parties are likely to look to the HC to support their 'case'.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. Kenny
    Member

    @amir - cheers re: highway code, I really should re-read that!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Dave
    Member

    A quick google dug up park cyclist brought off by dog awarded £14k, although of course it would be very much on a case-by-case basis.

    I'm relatively ambivalent on the dog front. Inevitably if you allow people to own dogs some of them will wind up biting people (or cause them injury through crashes).

    My sister has two young kids (1 and 3) and some trouble with uncontrolled dogs which has made the elder quite fearful (knocked down, though never bitten). It would be nice if people kept them on a lead, especially when they know they're walking on a road or path shared by others, but it's not all that high up my agenda TBH.

    Might change if I wanted to ride or walk on the paths with children of my own and they were at risk?

    I don't really find the Edinburgh paths to be particularly conflict-ridden, although I might have a blinkered perspective. Partly I suspect they are well enough used by cyclists that they are becoming truly shared (i.e. it's not necessary to slow down, use five different sorts of bell and get a man with a red flag to proceed you before passing every pedestrian).

    I hate the use of the meaningless word "speeding" in the so-called code of conduct. We've recently seen even relatively slow-moving cyclists (on an actual road) accused of "speeding" and all manner of carnage.

    Arguably you could be going too fast if you hit someone at walking speed (or on the other hand, you might be quite reasonably doing 29.9mph - perhaps not on a path though).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. slowcoach
    Member

    not from the HC, but from https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview :
    "It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control: in a public place ..."
    "Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
    injures someone
    makes someone worried* that it might injure them"
    *if "there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person"
    I think most dog owners have a different interpretation of out of control than I do, and the courts might not agree that my apprehension is reasonable

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. Baldcyclist
    Member

    We seem to go round in circles in these debates, to summarise.

    Cars = Bad - need to go really slowly AT ALL times.
    Bikes = Good - can go at whatever speed the user deems acceptable, wherever.
    Dog walkers = Scum - no place on Earth suitable for them.

    *Not my opinion, but seems to be the consensus of this forum. ;)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. SRD
    Moderator

    One of my students kindly shared a comic strip with my FB page today.

    http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2013/01/13

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "*Not my opinion, but seems to be the consensus of this forum. ;)"

    Not sure there is any particular consensus.

    I suspect there are more non-owners than owners - no idea what percentage of general population own dogs or % that are 'regular' cyclists.

    Inevitably people on here complain about bad dog owners just as they do about bad drivers. Presumably the latter are a minority(?)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. cb
    Member

    Someone told be yesterday that 25% of UK households own a dog.

    Or was it a cat.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. amir
    Member

    I suspect the consensus is closer to:

    bad car drivers=bad
    bad cyclists=bad
    bad dog owners=bad
    (bad pedestrians=bad)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. Dave
    Member

    *Not my opinion, but seems to be the consensus of this forum. ;)

    Funnily enough, for my part I often think the forum is strangely harsh on cyclists and tolerant of dangerous behaviour by others (given the type of forum it is).

    Cyclists are sometimes expected have the power to anticipate every sudden move by pedestrians and their dogs while woe betide a cyclist who creates even the most tenuous excuse for their own victimhood.

    I suspect it would be interesting to see how attitudes correlate with individual users' identification with the old in/out group theory...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. 559
    Member

    @Dave, suspect that the reason that this forum is "harsh" on cyclists is because it is a forum cyclists are on, therefore a re the audience, we rant about other road users but mostly they are unaware of those rants.

    As the faster of the two(three) participants; Cyclist, Dog owner and Dog we have a care of responsibility to look for and slow down if necessary. additionally communicating verbally with a good positive manner usually resolves most dog situations. There will be occasions when incidens will occur, but approaching in the manner above usually works.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. Dave
    Member

    additionally communicating verbally with a good positive manner usually resolves most dog situations

    I have actually once been on the path with someone who ROARED "sit!!!!" at a dog he was approaching (I thought I might fall off and the owner might fall over, the dog ignored him completely) but as a general rule I'm not convinced that the old voicebox is as effective as it would be with a person (or a person with a controlled dog).

    It's easy to say "excuse me" or "watch your back" when the problem is a person (this is my preferred action, rather than furiously pinging them out of the way with a bell).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. Kenny
    Member

    As previously mentioned, I have no problem with people who have dogs off the lead. What I do have a problem with is dog owners with dogs on a very long, thin black lead, walking along in the dark on one side of the path with their dog on the other side. *That's* dangerous, far more so than a dog walking along off the lead, IMHO. Twice I've been very close to a dangerous off, and one of those times it was only my gut instinct that told me there was a lead across the path, where I could see no lead.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "I'll abide by the code of conduct when the dog walkers do"

    Posted 11 years ago #

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