CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Plan for electric car charging points across Scotland

(45 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from acsimpson

12

  1. crowriver
    Member

    The Scottish transport minister, Keith Brown MSP, said: "This funding looks to the future - a future where people can charge their carbon-neutral cars at home, drive them to their local station and jump on an electric train to their workplace.

    "Workplaces will also have charging points for the days people need to take the car to work."

    Environmental campaigners said reducing emissions from petrol and diesel vehicles will be vital if the Scottish government is to meet its climate change targets.

    But they have also argued that there will have to be major improvements to public transport and increased investment in measures to encourage drivers to leave the car at home and walk or cycle instead.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21346299

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "
    a future where people can charge their carbon-neutral cars

    "

    We'll see -

    "The Challenges Facing Electric Vehicle Uptake"

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7750

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. Min
    Member

    Plan for electric car charging points across Scotland

    Yes yes yes!

    But they have also argued that there will have to be major improvements to public transport and increased investment in measures to encourage drivers to leave the car at home and walk or cycle instead.

    LALALALALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING LALALALALALA

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. minus six
    Member

    Workplaces will also have charging points for the days people need to take the car to work

    All hail the press release churn of our visionary transport führer !

    I for one welcome our new electric car charging overlords

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Darkerside
    Member

    Or, you could live close enough to your workplace that you could get there and back on one charge.

    Anyway, charging up everyone's cars during the day at work removes the opportunity to use them as a massive fleet of mobile batteries to store all the excess power we generate at night. See

    http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c26/page_194.shtml

    Although personally I'd rather we built another ten Dinorwigs. But only if the sites selected have equally cool place names.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I am assuming because these are hover cars (the type preferred by former Transport Secretary Phil "Hovercar" Hammond) that they will magically float across all the other electric (and non-electric) cars and solve traffic problems in one go.

    I suppose driving your electric car to the gym brings a whole new level of warm and fuzzy feeling inside yourself.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. Roibeard
    Member

    I love the idea that out of town charging points, so that you're no more than 50 miles from a station, will prevent "range anxiety".

    "It's OK dear, if I run low, I can always charge on the way."

    Except the Tesla Roadster (for example), under the best case scenario will take an hour to charge enough for 56 miles, and under the worst case scenario will charge 5 miles in an hour - the public stations should be equipped for close to the best case.

    "Filling up" would take between 4 and 48 hours...

    I'm sure technology will catch up and charge rates will improve and at the moment, being able to spend an hour or so driving to the station, to spend an hour charging, to spend an hour driving to the next station, etc is madness!

    You've basically halved the average speed possible!

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. crowriver
    Member

    Oh come on folks, let's not ruin Keithy boy's dream! You can see he's thinking about himself people like him, who would dearly love to take the train, but alas do not have a station on the doorstep, so have to drive instead. I mean, what exactly is the point of spending billions on all those motorways and bypasses if everyone's going to hop on a bike, walk or take the train? Err...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    How long till Keith gets an electric ministerial limo to whoosh him down the newly relaid Leith Walk Drive between St. Andrew House and Victoria Quay? Perhaps he'll also have the legislation changed to allow electric limousines to use the bus lane.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. Min
    Member

    Perhaps he'll also have the legislation changed to allow electric limousines to use the bus lane.

    Oh yes, I BET that will be the next thing to "encourage" uptake.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. LaidBack
    Member

    Min - you're right.

    I predict electric cars will be allowed to use the old Forth Bridge.

    Your heard it here first!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. steveo
    Member

    @Roibeard I'm sure tech will improve but the current limit, pun intended, means that you simply can't add energy too quickly with out starting a lithium fire. Batteries have an inherent rate at which the chemicals can be separated that is the rate at which they can accept energy anything beyond that is expended as heat.
    Nickel based batteries have a catalyst that stops the battery venting when it heats up this wasn't possible with lithium batteries and unless treated very gently they have a habit of going BOOM!

    Capacitors might help in the short term but ultimately its my opinion that battery based PEV (plug in electric vehicles) are a dead end. There is much better technology already out there, HEV (Hybrid electric vehicles) can charge off the mains then run like diesel trains with a generator running the electric motor. HEV's don't displace all the emissions the way that PEV's do but they're far more efficient than conventional diesels and odds are most people can run them from the mains charge for the bulk of their journey. Of course they are spendy...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Of course they are spendy...

    And you have to lug the weight of a diesel engine and generator around even when it's not being used.

    And diesel is currently getting itself a pretty bad press with regards to its emissions.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. steveo
    Member

    The only production model uses a small petrol engine and I think losing things like the gearbox works to keep the weight down around normal for its class. But I'm not sure.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. steveo
    Member

    Its about a hundred kilos heavier than a similarly specd Mondeo but much more efficient.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    @steveo, aye but "a future where people can contemplate their dead end, redundant lump of scrap" doesn't have that visionary ring to it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "
    But they have also argued that there will have to be major improvements to public transport and increased investment in measures to encourage drivers to leave the car at home and walk or cycle instead.

    "

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21346299

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. minus six
    Member

    Just heard kool keith on the radio

    "Its vital we put the infrastructure in!" he exclaimed, while being hurled round Knockhill racetrack in an electric car...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. slowcoach
    Member

    "Keith Brown said: "I look forward to the day when the only vehicles on Scotland's roads are electric vehicles, ...".
    Let's hope he's just forgotten the definition of vehicle and that our favourite vehicles (pedal cycles) will be allowed too.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. crowriver
    Member

    "Keith Brown said: "I look forward to the day when the only vehicles on Scotland's roads are electric vehicles, ...".

    Lithium shortage anyone?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. neddie
    Member

    Lithium is one or the more abundant elements in the Universe, due to it being a 'waste' product of fusion in stars.

    The problem is the rare earth metals like Neodymium and Yttrium used in the magnets on the electric motors.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. neddie
    Member

    I suspect the future of powering cars will remain the petrol engine. Like Ford's three-cylinder 1.0 litre turbo GDI (gasoline direct injection) EcoBoost engine with fixed-geometry turbocharger.

    It delivers 160 horsepower and 280Nm torques (equivalent to a 2litre Mondeo engine) but Co2 emissions are (a claimed) 90g/km (as good as a Prius Hybrid).

    Increasing electrification of the engine accessories e.g. valves will continue. Combined with energy recovery during braking, and stopping the engine while stationery could make a very lightweight, efficient and relatively inexpensive vehicle.

    See: http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2013/01/how-to-100mpg.cfm

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. mgj
    Member

    Spent yesterday swithering about applying to be the policy lead on this (LCVs) but it does sound just a bit meh

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It delivers 160 horsepower

    I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me exactly why cars that aren't race cars need to be lugging around 160 horsepower engines.

    Yes I know a lot of drivers want to think that their cars do perform like racing cars, but considering a vehicle never needs to (legally) get beyond 70mph, surely some significant savings could be achieved with even smaller, lower-powered engines.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. steveo
    Member

    Lithium is one or the more abundant elements in the Universe, due to it being a 'waste' product of fusion in stars.

    The problem is economic supplies of the Lithium salts used to make litium batteries are quite rare, much less common than oil. Funnily enough though, just like oil is usually only found in commercial abundance in politically unstable parts of the world...

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10077965-54.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/17/bolivia-lithium-reserves-electric-cars

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Min
    Member

    Funnily enough though, just like oil is usually only found in commercial abundance in politically unstable parts of the world...

    Or if they weren't politically unstable before they soon will be.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me exactly why cars that aren't race cars need to be lugging around 160 horsepower engines."

    I can't really comment. My car is closing in on 190, and there are plenty of less powerful options available in the same model.

    Of course you're mixing up need with want. I can't explain why I need so much power under the right foot; but could wax lyrical about why I want (or like) to have that on tap (more about acceleration that top speed with horsepower to be honest - apparently I could do about 140mph if I wanted to).

    One day I'll get to the Nurburgring...

    What it boils down to is 'enjoyment'. Which is the same reason I get on the bike every day; and why I don't drive in city traffic if I can avoid it; and why I enjoy driving on the Isles (the other upsside of my particular model being that it handles much much better - better brakes, better grip, better suspension etc etc etc). That sounds like I'm trying to argue that it's 'safer', which I'm not. If you've got more power you need more 'stability'.

    Had a really interesting car chat with Roibeard and Smudge at the last PY - definitely possible to enjoy having a powerful car without being a muppet behind the wheel.

    Ramble ramble vroom.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. cb
    Member

    Fears electric car charging posts will go unused | The Scotsman

    "A SCOTTISH Government consultant has conceded he does not expect people to use electric car charging points being installed at as many as 24 new locations across the Capital."

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. crowriver
    Member

    But Green MSP Alison Johnstone said the small number of power points in Edinburgh was a sign of the “chicken-and-egg nature” of promoting electric cars.

    She said more effort should instead be spent on improving public transport and cycling routes.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Our very own Lord Provost is convinced enough to be trialling a Prius plug-in Hybrid. Apparently he's very passionate about something or another. Chauffeured cars, I think.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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