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IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 16years old!
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RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Chris Oliver of the CTC will be on Newsnight Scotland, after a four and a half minute David Miller/Magnatom report.
(Starts at 11:00 BBC2)
Apparently BBC has been getting lots of responses to radio and TV reports via text and email, so maybe things are changing...
Will watch. Sure there must be a half hour programme in the making somewhere.
It's great that the issue of cycling infrastructure has been enjoying prominence in the media lately. When people find out I cycle, they start going "Oh, it's so dangerous! In Denmark they have...". Really encouraging.
Sadly, the only place politicians seem to be taking any notice is in London.
I started watching the Earlier Newsnight but that (Sorry for swearing) M Grove bloke was really frustrating and I didn't want to end up throwing something at my TV.
WTF was that about?
That Motoring journo was a grinning buffoon......
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David Miller (@BBCDavidMiller)
07/02/2013 23:25
Hmmm. Off to bed with a heavy heart. Planning a trip to Amsterdam. Hear it's tropical at this time of year.
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Gordon Brewer handled the discussion in his usual downbeat way. I've actually started watching STV as its news output is less doom laden.
I always get the impression that GB is not a 'neutral' on anything. He fed the negatives of the wind, rain and cold that stop people cycling in any numbers in Scotland. These were lapped up by motoring journalist Alan Douglas (former BBC Scotland presenter in 405 line days).
Net result - consensus amongst non-visionary 'sensible' people.
Will look forward to Dave Brennans longer report.
I've been driving for twenty five years and I want better segregated infrastructure for cyclists. Not because I want cyclists off the roads but because the roads feel dangerous and intimidating. A car brings nothing to the community it passes through except noise, danger, pollution and loss of amenity. Why can't motoring journalists see that cycling is a benefit for all? Bizarre.
I think I'm glad I forgot to watch this programme. I might have had to break something.
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He is a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists
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Last night's Newsnight Scotland
Article starts at about 7:19
I did want to throw things after listening to the motoring journalist, particularly with the smug expression he wore throughout.
Re Newsnight: Once again the argument for investment in cycling infrastructure concentrated on it being good for "cyclists". This is an easy line to bat back, as motoring hero Smirker Douglas did very effectively ("there's loads of money [£6m!] already being invested in cycling infrastructure and you don't use it, you'll just have to join the queue behind hospitals/schools etc if you want more funding [obviously not a queue motorways have to join]")...
This is the wrong approach to the argument. As long as the money is for "cyclists" it can be batted back. CTC Scotland guy did not make any strong points about how the investment in infrastructure would benefit society as a whole - a more pleasant environment in towns, everyone (especially kids) able to go out on their bikes without fear, health benefits, cost savings etc. David Miller's report covered these to a degree (but didn't really puncture the myth that the Dutch are "different") but Brewer didn't follow those up, and CTC man didn't do it at all.
Makes me think there is a need either to train cycling spokesmen in the arguments before they go on TV or to clone Chris Boardman.
I saw it last night, and fists were clenched when Alan Douglas started spouting his bile.
The short film was good, though I wish they had re-recorded the interview with the Dutch cycle campaigner because the word 'obesity' was very unclear.
The studio discussion was dreadful, worthy of the chipwrapper but not Newsnight. Chris Oliver stood his ground but was undermined by Gordon Brewer, who seemed to deliberately take sides with the taxi-driver style rantings of Alan Douglas. The quietly spoken Oliver was effectively shouted down by House of Commons roustabout type interventions from Douglas. A pity Oliver didn't point out the obesity time bomb issue, and how cycling can help. He did not even point out that many cycle paths in Scotland are not fit for purpose, though I guess he didn't want to offend Sustrans.
Instead what we got was a Mr Angry tirade from Douglas, assisted ably by Brwer. I'll translate their ravings from 'man driving down the street' speak below.
Cyclists were on the A9 when there's a perfectly good path alongside = This is MY road you plebs, GET OUT OF THE WAY.
Why do cyclists need segregated paths, they can just use the roads = That money belongs to MOTORISTS and cyclists shouldn't get any.
There is no cycling culture in Scotland like there is in the Netherlands = This cycling malarkey might be alright for continental types but it'll never work over here.
It's rainy and windy here in Scotland, unlike in Europe = I can't think of any better excuses, but you'll never prise me out my warm comfy car, you horrible cyclist you!
There are a lot of other things that need money (schools, hospitals) cyclists will have to wait their turn = That money belongs to MOTORISTS and cyclists shouldn't get any.
(end of translation)
I was appalled at Douglas' outpourings, but sadly not surprised. Both he and Brewer came across as petrolheads, pouring scorn on and poo-pooing the earnest, well meaning (but clearly misguided) cycle campaigners.
The one thing that really struck me is the huge sense of entitlement motorists clearly feel. The merest suggestion that some other group might get some transport cash spent on them brings out a very vocal reaction. Like all reactionaries, they ignore any evidence that does not chime with their (often illogical and contradictory) prejudices. They appeal to 'common sense' which is anything but, and resort to ridicule or slapping down because they have no counter arguments.
If any cycle campaigners were in any doubt about the mountainous struggle faced to turn around public opinion in support of cycling, watching this reaction should remove that doubt.
The tide is turning and this is why POP really helps.
Don't forget that the BBC is indistinguishable from the Daily Mail when it comes to cycling. They are less easy to ignore of course but it is more embarrassing for them to show themselves up as such fossiliferous old dinosaurs.
Oh dear Just watched that piece and Chris O did look a bit 'cardboard' probably not helped by being in a remote 'studio' (box room with a camera), that contrasted with the opposite extreme of animated and aggressive response from someone used to being on air.
Immediate response - Glasgow-wise would be yes we are slowly getting some important links restored mst notably the compromise of reconnecting a historic route which until the 1970's was a vibrant highway* with shops and commercial activity bustling with people travelling -often on foot and from the late 1800's by bike between Partick and Glasgow. After over 40 years when this route was cut through by the M8 - turning some areas of the city into a wasteland we are at last, not by a clear and positive government policy , but funding 'won' after having made a strongly contested bid for lottery fund money, and a determined effort to find the matching money from all available sources, getting the route reconnected - but still in a compromised way.
(* The Great Dumbarton Highway appears as an established route on the maps of Thomas Kyle, and is referenced on property deeds back into the 1700's as the route which owners had rights to access across neighbouring lands In Glasgow it IS Argyle Street which can still be traced through despite all the efforts to rub it out in Anderston)
Other examples show that it is not by government 'pull' but the 'push' of the public at large wanting to get around on foot and by bike that so often has to be the driver for any development.
I'm not a great fan of segregated facilities, especially where they exist in isolated pockets creating the conflict of movement at every point they intersect with general purpose roads, or a footway becomes a 'carriageway' for cycling, so often showing a lack of any design features to integrate the various flows of traffic - pedestrian, cycle, and motorised and positively creating the conditions for collisions and near collisions to occur.
The 'Bridge to Nowhere' is closing that gap, with the cycling routes to link in to it peppered with compromise, and convoluted connections, such that for a cyclist making progress and wanting to travel at moderate speed, it is simply safer and faster to use the road. Even in the detailing it shows a lack of the ability to use standards that are actually specified for cycle routes - all the tramline paving used fails to meet the DfT standard specified after extensive testing to mitigate the risk of the raised ridges bringing down a cyclist.
To the North of that Bridge to Nowhere the vitality that was Argyle Street can be visualised from the shops and businesses along Woodlands Road, which escaped severance (just) and where the determined passage of pedestrians walking across the car biased junctions of St Georges Road, Newton St, Sauchie, and Woodlands with the M8 slip roads, actually forced the roads authorities to shoe-horn in a footway at street level - but still take 40 years to properly set this out to deliver safe pedestrian movement across the road junctions, further North pedestrians still walk along the central reservation of the rump of a connection between West Graham Street and Great Western Road, so appallingly dire are the routes offered to those not on wheels.
As for that comment on the A9 cycle route - clearly until it is delivered with a surface quality and alignments equivalent or comparable with the road many cyclists will use the road - after all for most of us around a quarter of the local taxes we pay, and likewaise a substantial portion of our national taxation goes towards Roads and Transport, so we expect to be able to use what we are paying for.
And as for Keith Brown's piece - was that archive material? When I last walked down to the bottom of the hill on Glasgow I saw a motorway which, when I join it in a car takes me on roads which appear pretty much to be motorways all the way to Carlisle, Perth, Edinburgh, and well on the way to Aberdeen and Inverness. I would seriously question the value of spending vast amounts on extending these roads further given the paucity of traffic using them outside some very short peak periods, suggesting that the answer to the cries of 'lack of capacity should be rebutted by a call to "Use what you've got more efficiently" When I drive I can often get between key points without seeing a single vehicle travelling in my direction - on some routes (like the A68) even in daylight hours. Billions of pounds just to give me an empty carriageway - Thank you, but it might be nice to have a route for cycling.
POP, Spokes etc only help if you -- and all your friends/neighbours -- write to your MSPs!
(i know lots of people on here know this and do, but if you've not done so recently, please consider this a reminder!)
Hmmm, sounds like depressing viewing...
"sounds like depressing viewing"
Yes, but also makes it clear (especially after seeing the David Miller/Magnatom piece) that the Keith Brown, Alan Douglas and Gordon Brewer attitudes are WRONG and out of date and need to be out-argued (better).
"... but also makes it clear (especially after seeing the David Miller/Magnatom piece) that the Keith Brown, Alan Douglas and Gordon Brewer attitudes are WRONG and out of date and need to be out-argued (better)."
Does it make it clear to anyone but the already converted though? There are a lot of Browns, Douglases and Brewers out there. I'm not saying that means we should stop trying, just that I'm not sure this would have the effect that's hoped.
Agree entirely on the 'arguing' point though. Just seems that official spokespeople for cycling are invariably ill-at-ease in front of the camera, or have prepared the wrong arguments.
Boardman, as mentioned above, needs to be cloned.
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2013/02/caps-refresh-spokes-view/
....
Cycle use in Scotland is only rising slowly [although faster in some areas such as Edinburgh] – and without a big shift in present policies there is no hope of achieving the 2020 target – as confirmed in a progress report by Cycling Scotland. The government is now consulting on how to ‘refresh’ its policies and the Cycling Action Plan
....
HOW YOU CAN HELP
Contact your MSPs. Tell them the top 2 or 3 things you want to see included in the CAPS Refresh. Ask them to raise your points with the Transport Minister and to let you know the outcome. Find your MSPs at http://www.writetothem.com.
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CycleBath (@CycleBath)
08/02/2013 08:40
That RT from @CyclingEdin reminding us why cycling investment needs to be emphasised as being *for all*, not *for cyclists* per se.
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It would be refreshing if a CTC spokesman were to appear on the TV and say "Well, this isn't really about cycling at all. Increased numbers of people willing to walk or ride in their neighbourhoods is just a consequence of making our cities safer, nicer places to live for everyone."
The motoring lobby (and out-group status) are too powerful to challenge directly by saying "hey, we want more than 1% of people to cycle so we need more than 1% of the cash".
Always hard doing live TV. I obviously had no idea of questions coming up. Its supposed to be a debate. I did try and second guess questions and use material for the CAPS refresh that CTC and Spokes have been preparing.
I think the Motoring Journalist, Alan Douglas was as you expect “a motoring journalist” and Gordon Brewer was not sympathetic. I was disappointed as this did not support David Miller’s Documentary with Dave Brennan. The arguments by Douglas were all rather immature. As always you never get enough time.
There’s a lot more I would say but not in this forum. I have had media training. As a surgeon I am used to working in difficult toxic “viva” type situations.
I did argue about; better cycling infrastructure, increasing the cycling budget, increasing cycle use, segregated cycle ways, why you can cycle in a cold wet country such as Edinburgh! I used as much statistics as I could. I deliberately spoke in a low tone voice. I did intimate that the transport minister and Transport Scotland were behind the wave (other organisations could not have said this). There was so much more I could have said.
I was in The Tun, a studio in Edinburgh, you cannot see the face of any of the interviewers or what is happening on the program. All you have is a microphone and earpiece. If I had time I would have gone to the studio in Glasgow where the interview was taking place. |I only got asked at 4pm Thursday to go on the program.
Overall my opinion was I argued the cycling case as well as I could with the “temperament” of the interviewers. I have to be careful what I say. It’s certainly the first major piece that CTC Scotland has been on BBC national news network television I am grateful for David Miller for inviting us on the program.
Chris Oliver
Chairman CTC Scotland
chris.oliver@ctc.org.uk
Follow me on Twitter @cyclingsurgeon
There are a lot of Browns, Douglases and Brewers out there
Witness their loud, domineering, immature application of the human will to power
Motoring culture is the very lifeblood of their creed
These people shamefully define the media and politics of this backward country
Has the sun passed the yardarm yet, i need a drink
Has the sun passed the yardarm yet, i need a drink
Its five o'clock some where...
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Does it make it clear to anyone but the already converted though? There are a lot of Browns, Douglases and Brewers out there.
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That depends.
I'm sure you can regard CCEers as 'converted' and a minority of a minority. BUT I think that posters here have proved that 'serious' cyclists are not just the eco-warrier minor-minority anymore.
I think it's reasonable to assume that there are a lot more people who would really like to feel 'able' to cycle - and are increasingly doing so.
In addition many more people would benefit from less traffic, slower speeds etc. etc. AND (I hope) are increasingly realising this.
It's the motorway-warriers who are a diminishing minority. Unfortunately they still have a disproportionate degree of influence/power.
The SNP leadership seem to have a vision of an independent, motorway and tarmac-covered Scotland.They are throwing BILLIONS at road building in a country where people are having to subsist off of food bank hand outs under the spurious reasoning that it will (literally) help Scotland dig itself out of it's long term economic malaise. I don't share that vision with them. New roads are not that much of a priority in a country with a national health record as appalling as ours.
I certainly don't think that the Scottish media are anywhere near ready to step up to the task of holding the political class to account in an independent country.*
* yes it turns out the Editor of the Press and Journal just happens to have married a vice president of Trump Co. "How many golf courses would you like to build Donald? And how positive would you like our "reporting" of the matter to be"?
Cynical. Me?
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