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Audax Tyre

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  1. DaveC
    Member

    After I was given advice on another thread about tyres I have been looking at Conti GP 4000 and for Michelin Krylion tyres.

    I have found two variations on the Conti GP 4000. a tubeless tyre at £25 and a tubed tyre at £57!! I expect the diference is just the type of tubed tyre? and if I were to get the more expensive, what do you guys do if you have a puncture, given that the tube is molded into the tyre?

    Also I can't find many Krylions but have found Michelin Lithuims which appear to be a mid range tyre.

    Any more suggestions? I'm looking at Rose cycles and Bike-Discount in germany.

    Cheers,

    Dave C

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    I may not be the best source advice here, given my relative (lack of) speed. However I just ditched the old 25mm Continental Super Sport tyres on my Dawes for 28mm Schwalbe Marathons. Haven't noticed much difference in handling, though the new tyres are a bit more forgiving over rough surfaces.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Do you mean tubeless or a tubular ("tub")

    GP4000 is a folding tyre with an aramid (rather than wire) bead and is a fantastic tyre, I couldn't recommend it highly enough. It is very lightweight and smooth rolling (I remember on the Mull it Over Audax and comparing the ability of it to freewheel down a slight slope with some of the other guys I was riding with). It's also pretty tough, I got only maybe 1 puncture over 000's of miles until it had worn through.

    It is pricey though, but it is a "performance" tyre that you will find being used in racing. I remember getting them for around £35 when I last got a pair, think the Bike Chain had them on sale but that would be nearly 2 years ago now.

    The Conti 4-season is another to consider but to be honest I'm just going to stick with regular Gatorskins for Audaxing considering they are half the price and "it's not a race".

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. DaveC
    Member

    Is this what you have Amir??

    http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/continental-gp-4000/aid:193544

    I was considering these:

    http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/continental-road-bike-tyre-grand-prix-4000-foldable/aid:145142

    http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k373/a3195/krylion-carbon-700x23c-black-grey.html?mfid=104

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @DaveC - that's a tubular tyre, not a tubeless, you would need a tubular wheelset for them. I wouldn't recommend them for Audaxing as they are glue onto the rims and once you get a flat, that's the tyre done and you need to replace the whole thing, so you need to carry spare tyres (or have spare wheels, as you would in a race.) You also don't want to be trying to glue a tub onto a rim at the side of the road in the rain!

    I was considering these

    GP4000 comes in a x25 size, worth looking out, those extra 2mm get you 20%-ish extra volume in the tyre. They are listed at £24 each on that site - that's a great price for them.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. amir
    Member

    Michelin Krylions are now no longer made. Instead there is the Pro 4 Endurance.

    I think that Conti GP 4000s have the benefit over GP 4000 (Gatorskins) of being stickier. This is a good thing for me so I use them for audaxes. Shopping around over time and space is critical to get a good price.

    I think there are some reviews from Germany somewhere on t'web that compare longevity, and other relevant features based on measurements rather than hearsay.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. Coxy
    Member

    hibike.com good for cheap Conty tyres.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. DaveC
    Member

    What are the Conti Grand Prix 4000 like for wear?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. Dave
    Member

    Until my current experiment with Ultremos, the GP4000s was my tyre of choice, first in 23mm size, then in 25mm when that came out. It's what I used for PBP for example.

    They are lovely. They will wear out relatively quickly though - I didn't get through a full summer on mine when commuting Edinburgh - Dunfermline (but that is quite a lot of miles).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The GP4000 wear isn't fantastic - I probably managed about 1,500 miles max at which point they were flatting regularly and then (literally) ended up exploding off the rim.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. DaveC
    Member

    Wow!! Might have to just fit them for Audaxing then... anyone got a spare set of Audax wheels going cheap!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. Smudge
    Member

    My old bike had Schwalbe Durano S on which never punctured and felt quick next to all my other tyres. (But then I am slow!)

    I've currently got Durano Plus's on the audax bike, but with only about ten km on them I can't comment on their performance yet! :-(

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Cyclops
    Member

    GP4 seasons are probably slightly less grippy than GP4000's but do last longer and are a bit more puncture resistant - I couldn't really detect and difference in ride quality between the two.

    I find Michelin Pro 4 endurance are a bit more prone to rear wheelspin when climbing out the saddle than Krylion Carbons were - I suspect they're using a slightly harder rubber compound. Wear seems pretty good on the Pro 4's.

    I've gone over to Michelin now as you can get them far cheaper than Continental if you shop around and there is little discernible difference between the two.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. DaveC
    Member

    Well I have ordered these now:

    [url=http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/continental-road-bike-tyre-grand-prix-4000-foldable/aid:145142}Continental Grand Pris 4000 - foldeable[/url]

    from Rose cycles for my Audax needs. Will be using them on the Forth and Tay in March. I'll let you know how I get on.

    Cheers for the help guys.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. amir
    Member

    I wonder if that's a general rule:

    faster, gripper = less durability

    ?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    The Marathon Pluses on my Raleigh have done about 1,500k and still look new. The ones on my Globe hybrid have done 3,000k plus and have a bit more wear, but still plenty of tread. In comparison the stock Specialized Nimbus were fine for a year and then suffered numerous p*******s.

    As for Marathons, they seem to last a long time too. We'll see how the Dawes Audax gets on with them, but the ones on my former Raleigh folder did well, still lots of life left in them.

    So these tyres may not be the fastest but they're pretty much the lastest.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. DaveC
    Member

    My Marathons have plenty of life in them but I'm after something else.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. kaputnik
    Moderator

    faster, gripper = less durability

    Softer rubber perhaps?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. crowriver
    Member

    @DaveC, aye I know you're looking for a faster/lighter tyre. Some audaxers prefer a heavier, more robust tyre by all accounts. I'll be sticking with Marathons for the time being. If I want to lose weight I'll lose it off myself first... ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    +1 for GP4000S with Black Chilli compound.

    I've also tried:

    • Michelin Axial Pro 3 (good but not as good)
    • Michelin Axial Bi-sport (noticeably slower)
    • Fortezza Tri-comp (nice, cheaper but super delicate)
    • GP 4 Season (can't remember)
    • Specialized Turbo Pro (no grip in the wet or sub-zero)
    • Panaracer Stradius (very fast but puncture prone)

    I have a pair of Continental Supersonics but with no puncture protection I've not risked using them.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I think the Supersonics are aimed at timetrialling, no?

    It has to be borne in mind that tyre weight isn't really just about the weight you are lugging up the hills, but the rotating mass your legs have to get up to speed and keep at speed. Not quite as bad on an Audax where you are generally cruising at a reasonable pace for most of the time, but can be physically exhausting if you want to do a reasonable paced stop/start commute.

    Over very long distances, at speed, having a light tyre can be a bonus. In contrast to fully loaded touring where it's pretty irrelevant as you're never going to go anywhere fast and you're going to get knackered trying anyway :D

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. DaveC
    Member

    I think I'll keep the GP4000s for Audax and continue on the Marathon 28s for warmer commutes.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. crowriver
    Member

    Interesting thread here (apologies for advertising another forum):

    http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=64835.0

    Lots of audaxers recommendng Marathon, even Marathon Plus for winter rides. I presume mostly based in England, where winters are a bit milder than here. Come to think of it, Scottish summers frequently resemble other countries' winters...

    I might try a lighter tyre come the height of summer. We'll see.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    I'm sure you're right DaveC and crowriver. I've not come across a road strewn with hedge cuttings on an Audax or sportive but if I did, my usual technique - turn around and find another road - might not work as well as it does at other times. Hmmm.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. Cyclops
    Member

    Unsurprisingly, the audax population in the UK is highest in the south. Down there the biggest puncture problems seem to be caused by flints which are somewhat of a rarity up here, at least I've never had a puncture caused by one (rushes off to touch a big bit of wood).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Dave
    Member

    I can't remember if I posted this here last year or not, but it's fairly germane: Optimising for long distance speed.

    May provide reassurance that those GP4000's won't be a waste of money?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. Blueth
    Member

    I don't see the need for an audax specific tyre - the roads are the same regardless of why you are using them.

    I can't pretend to be speedy but prefer to travel light on an audax so tyres don't need the "capacity" of Marathons etc.

    I've used only 23s for everything from going to work, through audax to two pannier touring for thirty years with no grip/life/performance problems. I've always used what was cheap at the time (no surprise to those that know me) but for the last decade and more, since discovering that they seemed to roll better, have used Michelin - a variety of models as they have come and gone - currently Speedium so nothing fancy.

    I'm fairly sure my reducing speed up hills is not down to tyre choice :-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. amir
    Member

    "I'm fairly sure my reducing speed up hills is not down to tyre choice :-)"

    Different types of tyres can affect performance, not all of them wheel-based

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. crowriver
    Member

    I don't think there's a right or wrong tyre necessarily, just as there's no right or wrong style of riding.

    I'm a middle-aged bloke who has done mainly touring and utility cycling. I've never been a roadie nor a fast sprinter. I sometimes struggle to reach the fitness I need to ride the distances I would like to. I hate fixing flat tyres.

    So for me, the performance loss of a heavier, but more robust tyre is acceptable. Even if to some, it seems I'm hobbling a nice light bike with tyres of lead.*

    For younger, fitter, and/or faster riders a different choice of tyre reflects a different style of riding.

    Ultimately, if I make it to the finish in one piece, not too fatigued, and with time to spare I'm happy.

    * - Though my current set up is certainly lighter and nimbler than the previous CrMo Raleigh with M+ tyres...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. Dave
    Member

    Although if you think about it, the "middle aged bloke", either roadie nor fast sprinter stands most to gain from an efficient pair of tyres.

    This is because a much higher proportion of the friction you overcome is rolling resistance (whereas someone going 5mph+ faster is pushing a lot more air).

    Sure, air is the headline item for everyone, but tyres can make a big difference - I think people would be surprised if they knew they were riding up a 1% steeper hill than everyone else (virtually).

    I'm riding on studded 42mm Marathon Winters, in case you're wondering!

    Posted 11 years ago #

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